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Old 11-23-2014, 07:21 PM
 
Location: US Wilderness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Psalm 104:4 ministers=sharath= to serve, to minister to, to attend, do service, wait on, attendant. It was the service rendered by royal household workers (not angels) towards officials or public servants. The word is always used of a servant of higher rank, also used for the ministry of worship-The Levitical priests (not angels) conducted special worship services, The priesthood constituted Israel's access to God (Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study Bible)

God bless.
So only Levitical priests will be purified by the Holy Spirit?

Hebrews, which you referenced, clearly thinks the reference is to angels as can be seen in context. It is all about establishing the authority of Jesus by setting him above the angels. The word 'angels' is used no less than 35 times. Is Hebrews suddenly talking about Levitical priests in the middle of that? If so, why?

Quote:
Hebrews 1

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”[a]?
Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”[b]?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”[c]
7 In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”[d]
8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e]
10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”[f]
13 To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”[g]?
14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Footnotes:

a Hebrews 1:5 Psalm 2:7
b Hebrews 1:5 2 Samuel 7:14; 1 Chron. 17:13
c Hebrews 1:6 Deut. 32:43 (see Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint)
d Hebrews 1:7 Psalm 104:4
e Hebrews 1:9 Psalm 45:6,7
f Hebrews 1:12 Psalm 102:25-27
g Hebrews 1:13 Psalm 110:1
Read in context. Quote mining to support an unsupportable contention does not cut it.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:39 PM
 
Location: NC
14,655 posts, read 16,997,548 times
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Quote:
So only Levitical priests will be purified by the Holy Spirit?
No, Alt Thinker. I shared the definition of the word "minister" that was located in Psalm 104. It referenced people.

Quote:






Hebrews, which you referenced, clearly thinks the
reference is to angels as can be seen in context. It is all about establishing
the authority of Jesus by setting him above the angels. The word 'angels' is
used no less than 35 times. Is Hebrews suddenly talking about Levitical priests
in the middle of that?
I shared that angels and believers are ministers/servants.

God bless.
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:09 PM
 
Location: US Wilderness
1,233 posts, read 1,118,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
No, Alt Thinker. I shared the definition of the word "minister" that was located in Psalm 104. It referenced people.



I shared that angels and believers are ministers/servants.

God bless.
So in the middle of talking extensively about how Jesus is superior to angels, Hebrews 1 suddenly and very briefly mentions people for no apparent purpose other than to introduce a major theological concept in a highly obscure fashion, thereby rendering a whole lot of what appears to be very literal and non-metaphorical parts of the NT inoperative. And without resolving the resulting puzzle of why those parts very explicitly separate people into two groups, the righteous and the unrighteous. It is the unrighteous who apparently get flamed, whereas your interpretation of Hebrews 1 has it that the righteous are the ones who get flamed.

Sorry, it is not working.
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:17 PM
 
Location: NC
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I am not trying to work anything, Alt Thinker. Just sharing and I shared that angels and believers are servants/ministers.

Fire causes destruction and it also brings about change. Just as believers die to the old man inside of us by the Spirit of God, unbelievers will die to the old man inside of them. This is the purpose of the fire. This is part of the process of "making all things new". (Rev. 21) God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-23-2014 at 08:39 PM..
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,760 posts, read 10,216,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
1 Peter 2

Peter speaking to believers:

"9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."

God bless.
That promise is to the kingdom of Ephraim.

God put an end to the Northern kingdom and they were carried off into the gentile nations where they became gentiles.

As gentiles, they received a promise that God would come and marry them to redeem them back into Israel.

God called them,'' Not my people.''

He promised the land of Joseph a marriage of redemption to redeem them back into Israel to become one with Judah.

It is their promise, '' THEY,'' will be called, '' The sons of the living God.''

In the same place it was said to them,'' You are not my people.''

It will be said to them,'' You are the sons of the living God.''


THEY sat in darkness, and THEY saw a light.


One person attends the bridegroom and he is the friend of the bridegroom, and one attends the bride.
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:01 PM
 
Location: NC
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They were still believers though, Hannibal Flavius, right?

John also speaks of the 7 churches in Asia, and references them as priests to God. (Rev. 1:5) God bless.
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,760 posts, read 10,216,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
They were still believers though, Hannibal Flavius, right?

John also speaks of the 7 churches in Asia, and references them as priests to God. (Rev. 1:5) God bless.
God reserved 7000 men of Ephraim who had moved into Judah. Paul and all the disciples stood as a part of those 7000. The door was opened for the gentiles of Ephraim, and gentiles came to be redeemed back into Israel through a marriage.

In order for somebody to speak about a new covenant, Ephraim and Judah MUST be there, the covenant is for them only, and nobody else. Those gentiles repented as is said of Ephraim's return. They sat in darkness, saw a light and converted to Judaism.

That was another time in another religion.

100 years of gentiles sticking loyal to Jews and to Judaism no matter what.


That is no longer the case, Gentiles departed Judah and the feasts of Jerusalem just as Ephraim's kingdom had done before, and just as the kingdom of Israel became lost, so too, did the new Ephraim for the same reason.

Gentiles became like priests then, but who would think that this priesthood continued after they had called the Torah a strange thing, rejected the feasts of Jesus and departed from Judah who they had become one with?

They did exactly as the lost ten tribes had done, and this was predicted to happen. The brotherhood broken again, and thus a reason for Elijah to come again. Elijah isn't sent to Jews, his spirit draws gentiles to come and be married to Jews.



Jerusalem was destroyed, the gentiles departed, the priesthood ended.



How does a gentiles become a priest or Levite today?



If God gives us a way to do a thing in order to become a priest, will he give his spirit to the person he appoints as priest?

What fruit should a gentile offer?


Isaiah 66

And they shall declare my glory among the nations. And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the Lord, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the Lord, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the Lord. 21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the Lord.
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Old 11-24-2014, 06:47 AM
 
Location: US Wilderness
1,233 posts, read 1,118,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
I am not trying to work anything, Alt Thinker. Just sharing and I shared that angels and believers are servants/ministers.

Fire causes destruction and it also brings about change. Just as believers die to the old man inside of us by the Spirit of God, unbelievers will die to the old man inside of them. This is the purpose of the fire. This is part of the process of "making all things new". (Rev. 21) God bless.
Believe what you want. But it is not scriptural.
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:52 AM
 
68 posts, read 55,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alt Thinker View Post
By “final eradication of sin” I presume you mean that there will be no punishment for sin at that point. Since the second resurrection and the white throne judgment come after the 1000 year reign of Christ and (as you say) all sin is eradicated at that time, does that mean that those whose names are not written in the book of life do NOT get thrown into the lake of fire, despite what Revelation says? No one gets punished for what they did, despite what Revelation says? Why bother with a judgment?

Or is it that Luke is right and reward or punishment begins immediately on death?

Also, why is it that devil – the oppositional spirit of man – can get thrown into the lake of fire just like the beast and the false prophet? Or is that metaphor? If so what is the meaning of the metaphor?


The Bible clearly states that there is a lake of fire. And people will be in it. What, I think, is disputed is the meaning of the lake of fire. I believe that God's discipline is corrective. Fire in the Bible is a metaphor for God's discipline and authority. It flows from the throne.

Instead of a place to exact torture for ever and ever, it is a corrective place that restores.
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:57 AM
 
68 posts, read 55,471 times
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from Creations Jubilee:

When we look at therather detailed description of the second resurrection in Revelation 20, wefind hints that there will be believers judged at that time. The very fact thatthe Book of Life is opened (20:12) hints at this. Why would the Book of Life beopened, if no one standing there were written in it? Furthermore, verse 15strongly implies this when John says:

15 And if anyone's name was not found written inthe book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Certainly this meansthat many WILL BE FOUND written in that Book. And those who are will be givenlife at that time as Jesus said.

Who are thesebelievers? Why would they need to be judged? I believe the key is found inJesus' teaching in Luke12:35-50. Jesus speaks of “ thefaithful and sensible steward whom his master will put in charge of hisservants ” (12:42).Such people, Jesus says, will be given a placeof rulership and responsibility. This says essentially the same thing as Revelation20:4, where those of thefirst resurrection “ came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousandyears.

There is, however,another kind of servant, or “slave.” Keep in mind that he is still called God's“slave,” a believer, but he is not “ blessed and holy ” by any means.Jesus continues in verse 45 of Luke 12:

45 But if that slave says in his heart, ‘Mymaster will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both menand women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master ofthat slave will come on a day when he does not expect him, and at anhour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces [dichotomeo, “to cut up by severelybeating”], and assign him a place [meros, “portion, part that isdue, lot”] with the unbelievers.

In other words, theseunsanctified slaves, who had been given authority over other slaves, but whoabused their position, will NOT be given authority in the age to come. Instead,they will be beaten with stripes according to the law found in Deuteronomy 25.Furthermore, Jesus says they will receive their portion, or allotment “ withthe unbelievers, ” that is, AT THE SAME TIME the unbelievers get theirportion.

This does not meantheir portions are the same as the unbelievers. Jesus made this clear in thenext few verses when He said that the unsanctified servant will receive eitherfew or many stripes (lashes), according to his deeds. It does NOT say that hewill be classed as an unbeliever or that he will lose his portion (allottedinheritance). It merely says that he will not receive his portion in theresurrection of the just. He will get his portion along with the unbelievers atthe Great White Throne.

Keep in mind that inGod's Law, a beating was a punishment that was done immediately in front of thejudge and was strictly limited to 40 stripes (Deut.25:3). Jesus uses the term“many stripes” and “few stripes” to indicate an intense but quick form ofcorrection, administered according to the law's judgment.

They will not bethrown into “the lake of fire” mentioned in Revelation 20 during that long,final Age, for that is the fate of the unsaved. Nonetheless, such believerswill indeed be judged in a lesser manner. I believe that this is the judgmentPaul mentions in 1Corinthians 3:15.

11 For no man can lay a foundation other thanthe one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any manbuilds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay,straw, 13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will showit, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself willtest the quality of each man's work. 14 If any man's work which hehas built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. 15 If anyman's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall besaved, yet so as through fire.

I do not believe thatthis fire is literal. They will, however, be judged according to God's fierylaw, which in this case is up to 40 stripes. Christians in whom Jesus Christ islaid as a foundation, but who built upon that Foundation with wood, hay, andstubble, will suffer loss. They will be held accountable for their works, thethings they built upon their foundation of faith in Jesus Christ. Their WORKSand their flawed CHARACTER will be tried by fire and will be burned. This willnot destroy them, but will purify them by chastisement and make them fit forthe Kingdom of God.

The unbelieversthemselves, however, will be “thrown into the lake of fire” (Rev.20:14 and 15). The question is whether or not this is aliteral fire that differs from the other fire in which certain believers aretried. This will be the subject of our next chapter.
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