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Old 11-28-2014, 12:04 PM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,288,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galileo2 View Post
RESPONSE:

Really? What proof do you have, or is just something you were told. As the old saying goes, "The Church says the Bible, and the Bible says the Church"! And the "Church from below" is expected to always believe what "the Church from above" says.

>>Athanasius (c. 296-373) is known as the "Father of Orthodoxy."<<

Is that what the Church now claims? Have you ever checked it out for yourself?

Wasn't Athanasius once excommunicated by the (inspired?)bishops and the (inspired?)pope?

The books of the NT canon did not pick themselves. Men of that era decided which books were inspired and to be included in the canon of the NT.


Quote:
From Wikipedia:
"Throughout most of his career, Athanasius had many detractors. Classical scholar Timothy Barnes relates contemporary allegations against Athanasius: from defiling an altar, to selling Church grain that had been meant to feed the poor for his own personal gain, and even violence and murder to suppress dissent. Athanasius used "Arian" to describe both followers of Arius, and as a derogatory polemical term for Christians who disagreed with his formulation of the Trinity. Athanasius called many of his opponents "Arian", except for Miletus.

Ref: Barnes, Timothy D., Athanasius and Constantius: Theology and Politics in the Constantinian Empire (Cambridge, Mass: Harvard University Press, 1993).
You can discredit Saint Athanasius all day long, but he and others picked the books of the NT.

The NT is the gift of the Catholic Church to the Sola Scriptura folks.
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Old 11-28-2014, 12:25 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Who else would decide other than mere fallible mortals?
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Old 11-28-2014, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 450,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The books of the NT canon did not pick themselves. Men of that era decided which books were inspired and to be included in the canon of the NT.




You can discredit Saint Athanasius all day long, but he and others picked the books of the NT.

The NT is the gift of the Catholic Church to the Sola Scriptura folks.
RESPONSE:

If my friend Ralph and his friends pick some new books to be added to scripture, is there any reason Ralph and his friend's choices might not be just as valid as Athanasius'?

Men usually choose books they agree with to be called "inspired." Of course, this doesn't mean that are actually inspired by God.
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Old 11-28-2014, 12:44 PM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,288,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galileo2 View Post
RESPONSE:

If my friend Ralph and his friends pick some new books to be added to scripture, is there any reason Ralph and his friend's choices might not be just as valid as Athanasius'?

Men usually choose books they agree with to be called "inspired." Of course, this doesn't mean that are actually inspired by God.
They picked books from the apostolic era. Since the Church was Catholic, the books are a gift to the Sola Scriptura folks.

If Ralph lived in that era he could have done the job.
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Old 11-28-2014, 12:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
No, because that's the best part! And, the alternative is not good!

Have you accepted or rejected Christ's offer of salvation?
OK, if there was no salvation you would not be a Christian. Thanks for being so candid. Which religion would you follow if there was no salvation in Christianity?

I don't recall when I accepted Jesus. I was probably a kid long before 1st communion. I cannot pinpoint the exact time, it seems I was saved for as long as I can remember. There was no epiphany.

Last edited by Julian658; 11-28-2014 at 01:54 PM..
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,392 posts, read 12,685,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
OK, if there was no salvation you would not be a Christian. Thanks for being so candid. Which religion would you follow if there was no salvation in Christianity.

I don't recall when I accepted Jesus. I was probably a kid long before 1st communion. I cannot pinpoint the exact time, it seems I was saved for as long as I can remember. There was no epiphany.
You seem to believe my salvation was the end of my spiritual experience. It was not. It was the beginning. Now, I'm in the process of sanctification. One day soon, I will have my reward.

So, you did accept Jesus' gift of salvation. I thought you said that was selfish.
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,392 posts, read 12,685,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Who else would decide other than mere fallible mortals?
The Spirit of God.
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:52 PM
 
63,470 posts, read 39,739,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Who else would decide other than mere fallible mortals?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The Spirit of God.
And WHAT IS the Spirit of God, jimmie? Hint: God IS Spirit and God IS agape love.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:00 PM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,288,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
You seem to believe my salvation was the end of my spiritual experience. It was not. It was the beginning. Now, I'm in the process of sanctification. One day soon, I will have my reward.

So, you did accept Jesus' gift of salvation. I thought you said that was selfish.
You want a reward. Otherwise, you would not be a Christian. I am a bit uncomfortable with that sort of thing in religion. I always felt that true Christians had no greed. Eternal life sounds very greedy to me. Have you ask yourself what is like to live for an eternity?

I was baptized as an infant and growing up I always felt I was saved by Jesus. That is part of my upbringing and tradition. I did not willingly decide to be a Catholic and to be saved since I was a child. I am assuming I remained saved, but that is no biggie for me. If my life ends when I die i am OK with that too. And I would still be a Christian even if there is no promise of eternal life.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,392 posts, read 12,685,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
You want a reward. Otherwise, you would not be a Christian. I am a bit uncomfortable with that sort of thing in religion. I always felt that true Christians had no greed. Eternal life sounds very greedy to me. Have you ask yourself what is like to live for an eternity?

I was baptized as an infant and growing up I always felt I was saved by Jesus. That is part of my upbringing and tradition. I did not willingly decide to be a Catholic and to be saved since I was a child. I am assuming I remained saved, but that is no biggie for me. If my life ends when I die i am OK with that too. And I would still be a Christian even if there is no promise of eternal life.
I want to go to Heaven, rather than Hell. That's why I'm a Christian. I love Jesus and want to be with Him. As I said earlier, that doesn't mean I'm sitting on the curb waiting for Him to come get me. I'm working for Him in this life, but anticipating the next life.
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