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No. The sin nature is passed down by the male at conception. That's why the genealogies go to the trouble of telling us that Jesus had no human biological father. It goes back to the fact that while Eve was deceived, Adam was not deceived, and therefore it is Adam's sin nature which is passed down through the male rather than through the female, and it is Adam's sin, rather than Eve's which is imputed to the sin nature resulting in spiritual death at the point of physical birth.
I do believe this, Mike that the sin nature is passed down through the male xx chromosome. I do not believe that Jesus had a biological father. But it is interesting to discuss. So you can count me in to those who believe that Mary did literally conceive of a human child via the over-shadowing of the Holy Spirit.
No, he is not correct about the nature of my question. The simple fact is that people such as yourself have a low view of Scripture meaning that you don't hold to inerrancy and don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. Therefore you believe that the writers of Scripture were capable of inventing the virgin birth story.
If Jesus had not been born of a virgin then He would have acquired a sin nature at birth, and therefore disqualified from going to the cross to die as a substitute for our sins which is something you also do not believe. If there was no virgin birth then there is no salvation.
Well, the "nature" of your question flows from another false premise--- that "sin" is transmitted by birth. You don't even believe it unless you want to state all children dying before the age of two or three go straight to hell, which they would have to since they were born in sin and had not accepted Christ as Savior.
If they don't they aren't "born" in sin. And that in itself goes to the nature of Jesus' birth. The entire idea of sin coming through "birthing" reflects that the sin must come through the woman. You know Eve was the first to sin and God told her that she as a woman would bear her children in travail. I guess the travail part is the passing of sin from the woman to her child who is going straight to hell if he/she dies in the birthing process.
Now you are welcome to give me the age of accountability nonsense but you cannot biblically support it---- or maybe you can---you've certainly proven resilent in other posts of stretching scripture to explain non-scriptural concepts (please challenge me to prove it).
I will reply as I see fit. I asked him a question and he can answer for himself. Your approval is not required.
I agree, Mike. I don't think your response was smarmy. Your questions are quite legitimate concerning this matter of the virgin birth. I will never believe that Jesus had a human, sinful, biological father. If he did, then he would not be God's Only Begotten Son through whom all things are created. He is highly exalted above all. He has the preeminence in all things and is the very high priest who make intercession for us before God. I do not think that should be brushed aside or forgotten.
I think I just got sifted into the fundamentalist side of the isle. I do not take it lightly that anyone would come along and make Jesus no better than a lost sinner. Sorry - I don't buy that.
I agree, Mike. I don't think your response was smarmy. Your questions are quite legitimate concerning this matter of the virgin birth. I will never believe that Jesus had a human, sinful, biological father. If he did, then he would not be God's Only Begotten Son through whom all things are created. He is highly exalted above all. He has the preeminence in all things and is the very high priest who make intercession for us before God. I do not think that should be brushed aside or forgotten.
Do you, as well, believe infants die in sin and go to hell? If they do not, at what point biblically does that xx chromosome take over?
I do believe this, Mike that the sin nature is passed down through the male xx chromosome. I do not believe that Jesus had a biological father. But it is interesting to discuss. So you can count me in to those who believe that Mary did literally conceive of a human child via the over-shadowing of the Holy Spirit.
I don't know whether to believe in the literal virgin birth or not. I lean toward it because I believe Jesus was the Son of God. However, once I learned of other supposed virgin births from other cultural sources, it did make me wonder if it was an add-on. In the end, it doesn't really matter to my faith one way or another.
This is the first I've heard of the idea that a sin nature is passed through male chromosomes, though.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-21-2015 at 04:10 PM..
Do you, as well, believe infants die in sin and go to hell? If they do not, at what point biblically does that xx chromosome take over?
No, of course not. They are born in hell (this earthly realm/ GRAVE) and when they die they go to paradise. What has that got to do with Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit?
I don't know whether to believe in the literal virgin birth or not.I lean toward it because I believe Jesus was the Son of God. However, once I learned of other supposed virgin births from other cultural sources, it did make me wonder if it was an add-on. In the end, it doesn't really matter to my faith one way or another.
This is the first I've heard of the idea that a sin nature is passed through male chromosomes, though.
I think there are some places in the bible that make it clear that the sin nature is passed down through the male. And seeing how wicked so many males are, I am not surprised by it. Sorry guys, but I do think men are more sinful than women, generally.
This one appears to have been an early perception intended originally to increase the "stature" of the man as opposed to the message, and is clearly a part of the transformation of "the Way," or the relationship with God and man taught by Jesus, into a religion that could be administered by self-appointed "priests."
It stems from a transformation of "young woman" into "virgin" and seems to have been at least in part a nod to the "goddess" religions of the time (See Graves The White Goddess).
A later use of the idea appears to have been to strengthen the perception of Jesus as "the perfect sacrifice" in the barbaric "substitution atonement" theory that will be covered in later threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
So you're saying that Mary lied when she said she was a virgin?
Luke 1:34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
And that the angel lied?
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
I will reply as I see fit. I asked him a question and he can answer for himself. Your approval is not required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart_Song
I agree, Mike. I don't think your response was smarmy. Your questions are quite legitimate concerning this matter of the virgin birth. I will never believe that Jesus had a human, sinful, biological father. If he did, then he would not be God's Only Begotten Son through whom all things are created. He is highly exalted above all. He has the preeminence in all things and is the very high priest who make intercession for us before God. I do not think that should be brushed aside or forgotten.
His question that I called "smarmy" was "So you're saying that Mary lied when she said she was a virgin?"
I'm sorry, but I continue to disagree that this was a legitimate question but rather was put out there to denigrate the OP and sideline the discussion.
"You sayin' Jesus can't hit a curve ball?" from Major League came to mind, actually.
Your statement above, Heartsong, yes, is part of the conversation.
No, of course not. They are born in hell (this earthly realm/ GRAVE) and when they die they go to paradise. What has that got to do with Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit?
Biblically they are born into "hell?" Well, aren't we discussing whether Christ's birth is by a virgin? If He is sinless because sin is in the XX chromosome then biblically show me where the Bible specifically states all sin comes from the father. I don't need that worn verse about "the sins of the fathers will be visited on the children." That doesn't preclude sins of mothers being visited on children.
If babies go to paradise when they die, they couldn't have "sin" in their lives---sinners go to someplace other than Heaven.
And finally, there are numerous virgin birth stories, some out of Egypt, that predate Christianity.
I am not arguing "against" the possibility of a virgin birth, I'm arguing against sufficient biblical authority to make that concept a requirement to be a Christian. And that is exactly what many fundamentalist groups require to accept another as a brother or sister in the faith.
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