Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And the serpent (named "Good and evil") said unto the woman,
"Ye shall eat of it; not ye shall die"
The serpent is not named good and evil. The tree is.
Quote:
For God does know that in the day you eat thereof your eyes shall be opened,
and you shall become like Elohim.
Knowing good and evil, the woman saw that the tree (of life) was good for food,
and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat.
And Jehovah Elohim said to the woman, `What [is] this you have done?'
and the woman said, `The (sneaky) snake snaked me -- and I did eat
Is that what she really said?
Quote:
And to the man He said, `Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife,
and dost eat of the tree (of life) concerning which I have charged thee, saying,
God didn't say that to Adam. Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Gen 3:17 And to the human He says, "As you hearken to the voice of your wife, and are eating from the tree of which alone I instruct you, saying not eat shall you from it, cursed shall be the ground when you serve it, for your sakes. In grief shall you eat of it all the days of your lives.
The tree instructed not to be eaten of was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was only AFTER they sinned and AFTER God judged them that he barred them from eating of the tree of life.
Quote:
"Thou dost not eat of it, cursed [to] the Adamah in your crossing"
in sorrow thou dost eat of it (the tree of life) all days of thy life,
and thorn and bramble it doth bring forth to thee, and thou hast eaten the herb of the field;
by the sweat of thy face thou dost eat bread until thy turning to the Adamah,
for from it you take (name) for a cast out you [are], and unto the cast out you shall turn.'
You are doing what the serpent did in questioning what God actually said. Here is what God told Adam:
Genesis 3:18-19 And thorns and weeds shall it sprout for you, and you shall eat the herbage of the field. (19) In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till your return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning.
There is no mention of the tree of life in that judgment.
Quote:
And YHWH God saith, `Lo, the man became as one of Us to know good and evil;
and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take indeed of the tree of life, and eat and live (among thorns) to eternity,'
--YHWH God sendeth him forth from the garden of Eden to serve the Adamah which he take from name
God never said he would live eternally if he ate of the tree of life but rather "live for the eon." The Bible says all the eons end, so it can't be eternal.
I'm glad we both agree that death was then present in man after Adam ate and we all die because of that.
Yes, they had the potential to have "everlasting life" or life lasting for an ever:
God said "Gen_3:22 And saying is Yahweh Elohim,
"Behold! The human becomes as one of us, knowing good and evil.
And now, lest he stretch forth his hand, moreover, and take of the
tree of the living, and eat and live for the eon--!
Adam's act is concerned with humanity, especially Paul's thesis in Romans 5:12,18,19, not the animals.
How did Adam and Eve know what naked was until they ate? They had no idea of being naked prior to eating and all of a sudden, Hey Eve! you're naked! And Eve said, So are you! Hey what's that?
It is important to know that Adam and Eve did not know, truly know what good was until they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good . . . and evil.
They didn't really know how good they had it until they got kicked out.
Death was in Adam before eating...He was created mortal...If he was immortal, then G-d would not have said what he said...
In Jewish tradition, the Tree of Knowledge and the eating of its fruit represents the beginning of the mixture of good and evil together. Before that time, the two were separate, and evil had only a nebulous existence in potentia. While free choice did exist before eating the fruit, evil existed as an entity separate from the human psyche, and it was not in human nature to desire it. Eating and internalizing the forbidden fruit changed this and thus was born the yeitzer hara, the Evil Inclination. In Rashi's notes on Genesis 3:3, the first sin came about because Eve added an additional clause to the Divine command: Neither shall you touch it. By saying this, Eve added to YHWH's command and thereby came to detract from it, as it is written: Do not add to His Words (Proverbs 30:6). - Tree of the knowledge of good and evil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Death was in Adam before eating...He was created mortal...If he was immortal, then G-d would not have said what he said...
In Jewish tradition, the Tree of Knowledge and the eating of its fruit represents the beginning of the mixture of good and evil together. Before that time, the two were separate, and evil had only a nebulous existence in potentia. While free choice did exist before eating the fruit, evil existed as an entity separate from the human psyche, and it was not in human nature to desire it. Eating and internalizing the forbidden fruit changed this and thus was born the yeitzer hara, the Evil Inclination. In Rashi's notes on Genesis 3:3, the first sin came about because Eve added an additional clause to the Divine command: Neither shall you touch it. By saying this, Eve added to YHWH's command and thereby came to detract from it, as it is written: Do not add to His Words (Proverbs 30:6). - Tree of the knowledge of good and evil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I am curious though, if death was already in Adam before eating, then why would God warn him that should he eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that in the day he eats of it "to die shall you be dying." It wasn't a spiritual death because God describes the death in that Adam would work by the sweat of his brow until he returns to the soil from which he came.
If Adam was already dying, why threaten him with dying?
Now the other possibility we can think of is that you are correct, that death was in Adam prior to eating the forbidden fruit but that due to God making it so he could not have access to the tree of life, this would ensure his death and that death would pass on down to his offspring.
Fairly standard stuff for fundamentalists. There are variations. They pull stuff from Revelations, and each other, to weave their scenarios.
I know...I was one once...I think...It was more of a challenge question...
See, this is what happens when preachers start getting creative with the bible in order to keep people interested and returning, the stuff becomes gospel and doctrine...Like the preacher I heard on the radio, one morning on the way to work, regarding the eclipse around the time of the crucifixion, he said there was no actual eclipse, G-d just reached out and flipped the switch and turned out the lights of the whole world...Now, his little sheeple will go forth preaching this to other people and now you have the receivers thinking this is fact...
I know...I was one once...I think...It was more of a challenge question...
See, this is what happens when preachers start getting creative with the bible in order to keep people interested and returning, the stuff becomes gospel and doctrine...Like the preacher I heard on the radio, one morning on the way to work, regarding the eclipse around the time of the crucifixion, he said there was no actual eclipse, G-d just reached out and flipped the switch and turned out the lights of the whole world...Now, his little sheeple will go forth preaching this to other people and now you have the receivers thinking this is fact...
Sorry, I wasn't aware of your background. And now you're learning your Jewish roots? Converting?
Fairly standard stuff for fundamentalists. There are variations. They pull stuff from Revelations, and each other, to weave their scenarios.
I don't think one can rightfully paint with such a broad brush that all fundamentalists would teach or believe what that preacher was teaching. I certainly don't agree with that statement that God just flipped a switch. But maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
Sorry, I wasn't aware of your background. And now you're learning your Jewish roots? Converting?
I agree with your summary.
Yup...Some Jew somewhere in my families history converted...Besides, Judaism the way the Jews understand it makes more sense...The Jewishness comes through my mother's mother's mother...
He was not created immortal...Nowhere does it ztate this...It is just an assumption...Besides, different Rabbis have different views...And I was a stain for over 30 years...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
