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Old 05-25-2015, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,475,192 times
Reputation: 1737

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
You have to fully understand how Natural Selection works.

As long as the conditions exist for things to evolve then evolution will continue. It is a continues process based on several factors. It takes billions of years for evolution to occur which is why the naysayers have difficulty understanding Evolution.

Bacteria and viruses evolve very quickly. In medicine we are always trying to stay one step ahead of these evolving "bugs". If scientists had no understanding about genetic mutations we would be on a greater losing end with respect to battling these "bug".

We have seen in our lifetime the evolution of Antibiotic Resistant Bacteria.

Look at dogs today...do you ever wonder how they became so diverse?

Evolution is an ongoing process. But fossil records show that species often remain unchanged for millions of years.
The changes you mention are not from evolving, but adaptation. Viruses and bacteria are adapting to their environment which includes surviving the threat antibiotics (in the case of bacteria). This is the typical response that even humans have when our immune system recover from a disease.

Also, there are so many different dogs today for the same reason humans are so diverse... genetics. Yet not one dog is evolving into another species.

Are you saying that humans with brown hair evolved into humans with blonde hair because it was an environmental necessity?

 
Old 05-25-2015, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,212,849 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanTerra View Post
In "science," the facts ARE the observations - that's what we scientists call the observations. Theories explain the facts. Laws are merely observations (facts) that are so reliable and ubiquitous that they are formally expressed as mathematical equations. Laws of Thermodynamics, Einstein's field equations in GToR comprise our current laws of gravity, etc. That is another error when lay people think that theories become laws when proven. They don't. Explanations remain explanations. It is the theory that explains the law and other observations - the facts. Theories are not some incremental level on a scale of certainty. That's the layperson's take on it. So when someone says that evolution or gravity in not a fact but rather a theory, that would be wrong - they are both. This is why the "music is just a theory" is such a good illustration of the absurdity of the either/or statement, and really drives home what a Scientific Theory entails. When discussing science I am naturally inclined to restrict myself to use the terms scientifically.
Not quite...what if your observation was wrong? Would you still call it a fact?

This happens all the time in science which is why the word fact is never used in science.

The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is our best explanation for the fact of evolution. It has been tested and scrutinized for over 150 years, and is supported by all the relevant observations.

A theory never becomes a law. There is nothing higher, or better, than a theory.

Laws describe, and theories explain.

The Law of Gravity describes gravity.

The Theory of Gravity explains gravity.
 
Old 05-25-2015, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
8,734 posts, read 13,767,921 times
Reputation: 3807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Not quite...what if your observation was wrong? Would you still call it a fact?
The observation is always the fact - in science. Was the observation not made? If it was made, that was the fact. Observations are not undone. The conclusions can be wrong and would be discarded.

Quote:
This happens all the time in science which is why the word fact is never used in science.
We use it all the time in Geology.

Quote:
The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is our best explanation for the fact of evolution. It has been tested and scrutinized for over 150 years, and is supported by all the relevant observations.
Correct, and those are the observations are the facts. Here's a star *


Quote:
A theory never becomes a law. There is nothing higher, or better, than a theory.
Correct, here is another star *

Quote:
Laws describe, and theories explain.
Correct. You're getting it. Laws are descriptions of observations that are so reliable that they are capable of being expressed as mathematical equations.

Quote:
The Law of Gravity describes gravity.
Correct the Laws of Gravity - Einsteins field equations describe the observations, the facts in a mathematical expression. Here is a redux of those equations.



Two stars **

Quote:
The Theory of Gravity explains gravity.
Correct - see above. Did you read my post? Go back and read the portion of Gould's essay I quoted.

Last edited by PanTerra; 05-25-2015 at 05:06 PM..
 
Old 05-25-2015, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,212,849 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
The changes you mention are not from evolving, but adaptation. Viruses and bacteria are adapting to their environment which includes surviving the threat antibiotics (in the case of bacteria). This is the typical response that even humans have when our immune system recover from a disease.

Also, there are so many different dogs today for the same reason humans are so diverse... genetics. Yet not one dog is evolving into another species.

Are you saying that humans with brown hair evolved into humans with blonde hair because it was an environmental necessity?
LOL Adaption is a huge part of Evolution. It's the driving force behind Natural Selection.

Read up my dear! Adaptation

No humans with blonde hair inherited those traits from their parents...not as a result of an environmental necessity. The phenotypic expression (blonde hair, blue eyes..etc) you see in any animal is all based on the genes they inherited from their parents. Heritable traits are passed from one generation to the next via DNA.
 
Old 05-25-2015, 04:52 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,875,624 times
Reputation: 4559
Quote:
Originally Posted by HushWhisper View Post
When will the catholic religion accept Paul's teachings? It's really sad to see them continue to bash Paul.
Jesus thought He made the right decision when He picked Paul as an Apostle, why can't men accept that?
Oh, I know, because Paul speaks against their religion.

Over an over, everywhere you go on the net it's easy to see the bashing against the Apostle Paul ~sad.
What?

Do you really take the word of a likely epileptic as sacrosanct?
 
Old 05-25-2015, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,212,849 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanTerra View Post
But you are mixing realms of laymen terms and science term. I don't think you are reading what I am writing. Did you not have your coffee?
Exactly what laymen term am I mixing with a science term?

You are the one who is mixing the word fact with observation.

The scientific method NEVER uses the word fact for observation because observations can be misinterpreted or flat out wrong.

Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as “true.” Truth in science, however, is never final and what is accepted as a fact today may be modified or even discarded tomorrow.
 
Old 05-25-2015, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
7,588 posts, read 6,582,895 times
Reputation: 17966
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So you are saying that sponges, for example, are still around why? Newts and salamanders are transitional species that never fully evolved then?

What is found to have purpose in the environment just stopped evolving?
You should read Darwin, because the answer to that question explains how he first got the idea of natural selection. He found that similar species, which had evolved from the same common ancestor, differed slightly from one island to another - because each species had adapted to the environment of that specific island. If you consider that, and understand what it means, you realize that once a lifeform has adapted to fit its new environment, it stops changing, because there is no longer any need for it to adapt further.

What it further means is that just because some sponges in one part of the ocean evolve to fit the environment in that part of the ocean doesn't mean that every sponge on the planet is going to evolve along with them. They don't need to. Or, to go back to Darwin, let's consider his famous finches - some of them developed beaks that were suited for eating the cactus plants on the island on which they lived, others developed beaks that were better-suited for catching insects, and still others never evolved at all because they remained in their original environment and didn't need to adapt.

If an animal doesn't need to change, it generally doesn't change. Animals that move to a different environment, or whose environment changes for some reason, tend to adapt to the new environment. It's really not as complicated as a lot of people try to make it.
 
Old 05-25-2015, 04:58 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,165,321 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
What?

Do you really take the word of a likely epileptic as sacrosanct?

What?

Do you really discount the actions and teachings of Jesus?
 
Old 05-25-2015, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,212,849 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by HushWhisper View Post
What?

Do you really discount the actions and teachings of Jesus?
Take this conversation to another thread.

This thread is about Evolution vs. Creation Myth.
 
Old 05-25-2015, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
8,734 posts, read 13,767,921 times
Reputation: 3807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Exactly what laymen term am I mixing with a science term?
Fact in Laymen's term is synonymous with truth. Fact in science is synonymous with observations.

Quote:
You are the one who is mixing the word fact with observation.

The scientific method NEVER uses the word fact for observation because observations can be misinterpreted or flat out wrong.
a laymen wouldn't because to him fact means truth. But this is science.

Quote:
Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as “true.” Truth in science, however, is never final and what is accepted as a fact today may be modified or even discarded tomorrow.
That's correct, another gold star* Assent proffered to conclusions drawn from the facts of science - the observations is always provisional.

Please read the article I quoted. It's as if I was talking right past you.
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