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Just to clarify, when I used the expression "infinitesimal" this was in reference to someone arguing from the position of arrogance in relation to the perceived notion of randomness.
I think you meant to say it was your arrogance showing when you made this statement.
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Originally Posted by Rotagivan
The simply answer as I was speaking about the evolution of the universe as a complete package, not just your infinitesimal part in that process.
Sure compare anything on Earth to the Universe and it looks infinitesimal. Now come back to planet Earth and we see the game changes.
If we go by what God said, He formed man on the 6th day, not from millions of years of evolution. Evolution is just a way to disenfranchise God from any part in His incredible creation of humanity. Oh, some can say God had animals evolve into humans but that is not what God said. It comes down to Who does one believe? God or fallible man?
You put it just right Who does one believe, obviously God is the maker of all things. Give him the glory, not evolution.
If we go by what God said, He formed man on the 6th day, not from millions of years of evolution. Evolution is just a way to disenfranchise God from any part in His incredible creation of humanity.
OK, I'm lost here. Why does creation have to exclude the process? I created something too, not as elaborate as a universe with the planet earth in it but it was something I could do. Now there was a process I used to create this something and it was not magic. It wasn't evolution either but the point is that creating something or anything involves a process, be it wand waving magic, speaking the word or just plain doing some hard work.
By the way, the original biblical texts did not say god created man on the 6th day. It said "and the morning and the evening was the sixth day". In fact, it said it three times, each with a slight variation. Get hold of a King James bible, you may find it interesting. Do a search on how Genesis came to be written in the first place.
Just to clarify my standpoint, not for one moment do I think the universe and all that's in it was created in six 24 hour consecutive periods. Nor do I think there was any intelligent or deliberate influence in the creation. And yes, the universe, the earth and us were created. The proof is quite simple - we exist, therefore we were created. We were created by a long process of science stuff which includes evolution. The evolution of our galaxy, the evolution of our solar system, the evolution of our planet and so on.
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. Evolution is just a way to disenfranchise God from any part in His incredible creation of humanity.
Would please elaborate? Just how does evolution or any science disenfranchise God?
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He formed man on the 6th day, not from millions of years of evolution.
Did God not say in the bible "a day is but a thousand years, a thousand years is but a day"?
Another point, on which day did god separate the light from the darkness? Up until then there were no 'days' as such.
Well, I said I wouldn't come back into this thread but, because you were very nice in your presentation, I thought I would give my thoughts on the matters you raised.
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E wrote: If we go by what God said, He formed man on the 6th day, not from millions of years of evolution. Evolution is just a way to disenfranchise God from any part in His incredible creation of humanity.
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303G replied:
OK, I'm lost here. Why does creation have to exclude the process? I created something too, not as elaborate as a universe with the planet earth in it but it was something I could do. Now there was a process I used to create this something and it was not magic. It wasn't evolution either but the point is that creating something or anything involves a process, be it wand waving magic, speaking the word or just plain doing some hard work.
I didn't know it had to include the process. He formed the human out of the soil on the earth and breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul. That is the only process God felt we needed.
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303G wrote: By the way, the original biblical texts did not say god created man on the 6th day. It said "and the morning and the evening was the sixth day". In fact, it said it three times, each with a slight variation. Get hold of a King James bible, you may find it interesting. Do a search on how Genesis came to be written in the first place.
But it was on the 6th day Elohim created the human.
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303G wrote: Just to clarify my standpoint, not for one moment do I think the universe and all that's in it was created in six 24 hour consecutive periods. Nor do I think there was any intelligent or deliberate influence in the creation. And yes, the universe, the earth and us were created. The proof is quite simple - we exist, therefore we were created. We were created by a long process of science stuff which includes evolution. The evolution of our galaxy, the evolution of our solar system, the evolution of our planet and so on.
I don't believe God created the univers in six 24 hour periods either. Genesis 1:1 is detailing that God created the heavens and the earth. 1:2a the earth BECAME chaos and vacant of all life.
1:2b beginning with day one to day seven is God making that already created earth habitable again and placing the plant and animal kingdom on it along with the human. You can't prove we were created by a process of evolution so why even say it? Some, who believe in evolution, are basing their beliefs on faith just as I am that God created us without evolution.
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E wrote:
. Evolution is just a way to disenfranchise God from any part in His incredible creation of humanity.
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303G replied: Would please elaborate? Just how does evolution or any science disenfranchise God?
I didn't say "any science disenfranchises God. If evolution is based upon an accident, indeed if the entire universe is based upon an accident (that's faith-based evolution and science by the way to believe such since it is unprovable), it therefore disenfranchises God from being the One Who brought all into existence.
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E wrote:
He formed man on the 6th day, not from millions of years of evolution.
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303 G replied: Did God not say in the bible "a day is but a thousand years, a thousand years is but a day"?
No, actually He did not. Here is the actual quote:
2Pe_3:8 Now of this one thing you are not to be oblivious, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a
thousand years and a thousand years as one day." The "as" in the verse used similarly to "like" so it could be translated: 2Pe_3:8 "Now of this one thing you are not to be oblivious, beloved, that one day is with the Lord (will be like) a thousand years and a thousand years (will be like) one day." These are merely contrastive elements in which the one who is with the Lord in the future, it will seem like a day lasts "forever" and to others with the Lord it will seem like the thousand years really flew by quickly.
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303G wrote: Another point, on which day did god separate the light from the darkness? Up until then there were no 'days' as such.
Genesis 1:1-5 by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth. (2) Yet the earth became a chaos and
vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos. Yet the spirit of the Elohim is
vibrating over the surface of the water. (3) And saying is the Elohim, "Become light!" And it is becoming
light. (4) And seeing is the Elohim the light, that it is good. And separating is the Elohim between the
light and the darkness. (5) And calling is the Elohim the light "day, and the darkness He calls "night."
And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, day one.
Thanks for being nice concerning your post. I may not reply further since these kind of arguments produce more heat than light.
If we go by what God said, He formed man on the 6th day, not from millions of years of evolution. Evolution is just a way to disenfranchise God from any part in His incredible creation of humanity. Oh, some can say God had animals evolve into humans but that is not what God said. It comes down to Who does one believe? God or fallible man?
You put it just right Who does one believe, obviously God is the maker of all things. Give him the glory, not evolution.
Does one go by an old book or practical evidence? Assuming God as a given, why does that validate the book?
If we go by what God said, He formed man on the 6th day, not from millions of years of evolution.
Actually 'G()D' said nothing of the sort. You are confusing the belief that the Bible is something G()D dictated. It is something humans put together.
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Evolution is just a way to disenfranchise God from any part in His incredible creation of humanity.
Evolution makes a great case for intelligent creativity and is not a theory which at all undermines ideas of G()D.
However, it does destroy the literal belief that the universe was created by some magical being in less than a week.
Metaphorically the story of creation in the Bible can be seen to be a cultural explanation for 'how' but to take it literally actually takes the natural awesomeness out of it.
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Oh, some can say God had animals evolve into humans but that is not what God said.
Actually, how is it that you cannot see the truth of the matter that the human form is an animal one?
Just because you use the toilet in the privacy of your own home rather than simply poop in the park, does not mean you are not experiencing being an animal in an animal form.
What it does mean is that humans have a highly developed sense of self awareness and an evolved understanding that poo is disgusting and that toiletry habits should not be shared with the general neighborhood.
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It comes down to Who does one believe? God or fallible man?
If they were the only choices (the Bible (not 'G()D') or the fallible) then we would fail and fade as a species.
The best choice is simply not to believe anything. Continue to compile the data.
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You put it just right Who does one believe, obviously God is the maker of all things. Give him the glory, not evolution.
While I appreciate that the universe is an awesome thing, I don;t see how it is exactly the perfect place for consciousness to be lost in.
But oh well - perfect or not, it is what it is and we are where we are.
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