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Thrill, i do not see you working against the faith but seeking it, yes you might be ruffling a few feathers of the liberals and fundamentalist christians along the way on here, that is never a bad thing in my eyes, but if they have anything about them they should be big enough to see beyond it and get over it. I believe you are genuine and not looking for anything over than answers to your questions you have, and at the end of the day what is wrong with that?. I for one welcome your posts whether you are right or wrong because i see where you are coming from.
You're a gentleman and a true Christian, pcamps. A true Christian is not afraid to look at evidence that challenges their faith. It will either break the faith or make it stronger. If the evidence makes them even stronger believers, more power to them. Hebrews identifies faith as something hoped for when evidence for it is nowhere in sight. Put another way, faith is something hoped for when all the evidence against it is all around them.
The Christian must weigh what they hear and arrive at a decision for or against that they can live with.
You're a gentleman and a true Christian, pcamps. A true Christian is not afraid to look at evidence that challenges their faith. It will either break the faith or make it stronger. If the evidence makes them even stronger believers, more power to them. Hebrews identifies faith as something hoped for when evidence for it is nowhere in sight. Put another way, faith is something hoped for when all the evidence against it is all around them.
The Christian must weigh what they hear and arrive at a decision for or against that they can live with.
pccamps is being generous. Very generous.
But the issue is NOT that you are presenting skeptical points of view as a hypothesis to be considered, which are then categorically rejected out of hand by opponents . What you are doing here is misrepresenting opinion as settled science or scholarship, when in fact it is not. And using misleading source material to convince people of things that are not true.
You place a lot of faith in the ideologically based arguments of Left Wing pseudo-scholars. What you are presenting isn't evidence at all. It is supposition. So yes, pccamps is being very generous with you.
And I will tell you for the second, and third and even fourth time if necessary, that the men you revere so greatly were men in the Christian church's "Stone Age" who also thought the earth was flat, that the earth was a disc like a CD that rested on four giant pillars; that they believed the sun revolved around the earth and that the earth was at the center of the universe---all which science has proven is false.
If those are the kind of "enlightened" men you want to follow, then have at it.
That's the type of slanted blather you so frequently spin on this forum, but, it has no basis in truth. Obviously you have not read any of their writings, do not truly understand that the books of the New Testament (as we recognize them today) were in place and accepted by no later than 200 AD - Further, the NT has not changed in almost 2000 years. The Bible was quite clear that the earth is a sphere hanging in space, long before science ever woke up to the reality (and many others).
God's inspiration of His revealed truth, ways, plans, purpose and promises has stood for thousands of years and influenced millions of lives for Christ. Your pedantic arguments based only on papers written by Bible and Christian detractors such as yourself, are tiresome and empty. You flout the term "Christian" as though you were a competent judge of such things, when obviously, you care only for your own inflated opinions.
That's the type of slanted blather you so frequently spin on this forum, but, it has no basis in truth. Obviously you have not read any of their writings, do not truly understand that the books of the New Testament (as we recognize them today) were in place and accepted by no later than 200 AD - Further, the NT has not changed in almost 2000 years.
God's inspiration of His revealed truth, ways, plans, purpose and promises has stood for thousands of years and influenced millions of lives for Christ. Your pedantic arguments based only on papers written by Bible and Christian detractors such as yourself, are tiresome and empty. You flout the term "Christian" as though you were a competent judge of such things, when obviously, you care only for your own inflated opinions.
Actually, many prominent scholars also agree the likely hood of many of the epistles having been written by others is very great.
Actually, many prominent scholars also agree the likely hood of many of the epistles having been written by others is very great.
People have attacked the authorship of every book of the Bible, but, none have provided anything more than anecdotal evidence to support their theories. "Scholar" has become an almost meaningless term tossed around far too frequently in attempts to add credibility to otherwise weak sources.
There are more "scholars" that affirm God's inspired Word than those who attack it; ... But, that really does not matter! God and His Word do not depend on the support or agreement of men, but, instead will ultimately 'judge' all men by the very words of Christ (recorded in scripture) and the witness of the Holy Spirit.
People will choose to believe and disbelieve what they will, as obviously evidenced by this forum. "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord," ... the knowledge of whom resides in the very scripture that so many casually denigrate.
People have attacked the authorship of every book of the Bible, but, none have provided anything more than anecdotal evidence to support their theories. "Scholar" has become an almost meaningless term tossed around far too frequently in attempts to add credibility to otherwise weak sources.
There are more "scholars" that affirm God's inspired Word than those who attack it; ... But, that really does not matter! God and His Word do not depend on the support or agreement of men, but, instead will ultimately 'judge' all men by the very words of Christ (recorded in scripture) and the witness of the Holy Spirit.
People will choose to believe and disbelieve what they will, as obviously evidenced by this forum. "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord," ... the knowledge of whom resides in the very scripture that so many casually denigrate.
As I said, "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."
You hold some fairly unorthodox views yourself, no?
I do, yes, but I don't come into a Christian forum and say Jesus Christ never existed and then try to engage believers to debate me on the scriptures. Anyone who is a true believer who uses their time and energy to debate someone like Thrillobyte is free to do so. My point was how much of a waste of time it was. My other point is the double standard between the Christian forum and the atheist forum where people are allowed to come here and belittle believers in Jesus Christ, but Christians are not allowed to go on the atheist forum and discuss their faith. I think it's dumb to participate when such a double standard is allowed. If I was not a BELIEVER IN JESUS CHRIST, I would have NO BUSINESS posting in this forum.
That's the type of slanted blather you so frequently spin on this forum, but, it has no basis in truth. Obviously you have not read any of their writings, do not truly understand that the books of the New Testament (as we recognize them today) were in place and accepted by no later than 200 AD - Further, the NT has not changed in almost 2000 years. The Bible was quite clear that the earth is a sphere hanging in space, long before science ever woke up to the reality (and many others).
God's inspiration of His revealed truth, ways, plans, purpose and promises has stood for thousands of years and influenced millions of lives for Christ. Your pedantic arguments based only on papers written by Bible and Christian detractors such as yourself, are tiresome and empty. You flout the term "Christian" as though you were a competent judge of such things, when obviously, you care only for your own inflated opinions.
The Bible does not say - as science has demonstrated - that the earth is a globe floating (orbiting, in fact) in space. It teaches that it is a circular disc (the hebrew is chwug - if it had meant a sphere it would have used the hebrew Dwr which it uses in the Bible to describe a ball) hanging without any visible means of support below a dome 'spread out like a tent' - as the 'hung on nothing' passage goes onto say - within which the celestial bodies rotate.
The claim that advanced scientific knowledge is found in the Bible is false, Mr jghorton and it is a con trick based on finding something in the Bible that sound vaguely like this or that scientific concept. There's one about the heavens and earth wearing out like an old garment which is presented as advanced knowledge of Entropy, or again the wind going in a circle from north to south is knowledge of the jet -stream, which in fact goes from West to East as I recall. The Bible envisages a wind circling around the flat disc north to south within the mountains that surrounded it. It was that wind that pushed the Flood waters back behind the mountains that penned it back into the waters that surrounded the earth - the 'fountains of the deep': themselves vaguely linked with the later discovery of 'smokers': deep sea hot vents.
Another one is the 'paths of the sea' which is supposed to refer to ocean currents (though I reckon it could equally refer to know sea-trading routes - it is that vague) which were (so the science -in the Bible -mongers claim) discovered by Maury following up the clue in the Bible. In fact he knew and said that these ocean currents were long known about and he merely codified them. This sort of thing is well -meaning but dishonest trickery designed to fool people into accepting false claims about the Bible in order to prove that it is the personal dictates of God and is therefore to be accepted without any questioning at all.
You might have seen a few threads her by Muslims who also find science in the Quran, though in fact it is often less convincing like the moving mountains and the piercing star supposed to be knowledge of Pulsars. And is sometimes dead wrong like the fresh water not mingling with the salt (of course, it does) and the fly having disease on one wing and the cure on the other so you can cure a disease by popping a bluebotle into your coffee and gulping it (you may laugh but the Science in the Bible stuff is no better)
Now, I am going to credit you with integrity, because this stuff is quite convincing until the explanation is given. So you have the chance to be honest and admit you were conned. Or you can try to show that I am wrong. I'm willing to listen .
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