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Nice try. I asked you this question 4 pages ago. You're afraid to answer it honestly.
Can I give it a shot? Jesus, in some minds, never met other people than what is in the bible and never said anything that wasn't in the bible. Are you one of them?
It's naive to think that everyone Jesus met listened and sinned no more. Certainly the Pharisees didn't listen.
Can I give it a shot? Jesus, in some minds, never met other people than what is in the bible and never said anything that wasn't in the bible. Are you one of them?
It's naive to think that everyone Jesus met listened and sinned no more. Certainly the Pharisees didn't listen.
It is not naive to think that the impact of the Savior's love for them was such that they resolved to follow Him however imperfectly they (as we) meet that resolution.
It is not naive to think that the impact of the Savior's love for them was such that they resolved to follow Him however imperfectly they (as we) meet that resolution.
Just as it is naive to think that the bible records every encounter Jesus had, it is naive to think all encounters turned out with them sinning no more.
That doesn't make sense. If everyone is a sinner, they are by definition involved in destructive behavior since sin IS destructive behavior. So, how is there anyone left in your church?
A church is to sin as a hospital is to illness. How do we treat sin? How do we treat illness? Many ways... and even isolation and separation to protect healthy individuals from coming into contact with an infected person. Some illnesses require harsh measures as does sin but the intent is to heal or help. Doctors get it wrong as do churches.... but where is the greater failing, to do nothing? or do something?... and get it wrong.
Sometimes new illnesses challenge our abilities to understand and treat the patients and so does new sins like drug addiction or cults.
If anyones believes you can love a heroine addict to spiritual nirvana then that person needs to remove the head from their .... er, um.... hat.
A church is to sin as a hospital is to illness. How do we treat sin? How do we treat illness? Many ways... and even isolation and separation to protect healthy individuals from coming into contact with an infected person. Some illnesses require harsh measures as does sin but the intent is to heal or help. Doctors get it wrong as do churches.... but where is the greater failing, to do nothing? or do something?... and get it wrong.
Sometimes new illnesses challenge our abilities to understand and treat the patients and so does new sins like drug addiction or cults.
If anyones believes you can love a heroine addict to spiritual nirvana then that person needs to remove the head from their .... er, um.... hat.
Are you afraid that if you attend church with a heroin addict, you might become one?
Conversely, if you don't allow the addict to be a member of your church, in what way will that help them to overcome their addiction?
Are you afraid that if you attend church with a heroin addict, you might become one?
No... but an addict can steal, rob, threaten or hurt people to satisfy their addiction. Prisons are full of people who have fallen prey to addiction. That's a fact.
Ever notice who's most likely to help an addict? = an ex addict.
ever notice who's most likely to help a sinner? = other sinners.
I can tell you who never helps sinners... spiritual Pharisees.
No... but an addict can steal, rob, threaten or hurt people to satisfy their addiction. Prisons are full of people who have fallen prey to addiction. That's a fact.
So, you're saying that kicking people out of church is just about protecting yourselves from becoming the victims of potential criminal behavior? It's not really about helping the "sick/sinful" person after all, then.
Okay, so using Jimmie's example of the people who were having an affair. Kicking them out wasn't about helping them, it was about protecting the congregation. From what, exactly?
Quote:
Ever notice who's most likely to help an addict? = an ex addict.
ever notice who's most likely to help a sinner? = other sinners.
I can tell you who never helps sinners... spiritual Pharisees.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.
Just as it is naive to think that the bible records every encounter Jesus had, it is naive to think all encounters turned out with them sinning no more.
That's just simple logic.
We seem to be talking at cross purposes: if Jesus had told them to never commit a sin again, He would have been putting an unrealistic burden on them and your correct analysis would have Him being very foolish indeed. What He was telling them was to abandon their lifestyle (living IN sin) and embrace a better way. He was NOT telling them that they had to be perfect from then on. There is a difference between committing errors in our walk and remaining in a sinful lifestyle.
We seem to be talking at cross purposes: if Jesus had told them to never commit a sin again, He would have been putting an unrealistic burden on them and your correct analysis would have Him being very foolish indeed. What He was telling them was to abandon their lifestyle (living IN sin) and embrace a better way. He was NOT telling them that they had to be perfect from then on. There is a difference between committing errors in our walk and remaining in a sinful lifestyle.
How long is remaining? Say for example the cheating couple. Did they have to break up right then and there or could they take time to go to couple's counseling with their spouses? Who defines what is committing errors and what is remaining in sin?
Most people who have affairs either give it up after they are caught or divorce and change partners. Either outcome seems to be abandoning the cheating part.. right? I mean once the spouses knew... how could they remain in the affair?
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