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I believe it goes something like this:
In the presence of light, darkness cannot exist. In the same way, in the presence of pure love, hate cannot exist. If God is pure love then hate cannot exist in his presence.
It is not the work of the person, it is the work of God. It doesn't matter when the realization happens but the Bible says it does. God wills all men to be saved.
Thanks Kate for your answer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
I guess I misunderstood your question. I thought that you were asking why anyone woiuld come to God now if he could "have his cake and eat it." The point is that the "cake" being "eaten" is nowhere near as good as the cake being offered, they are not the same. My point about scripture was not that people could not come to a relationship without it, but just the opposite: Christ and a relationship with God are not limited to the life and ministry of Jesus.
"What about those who don't find love or can love?" How long can they maintain that in the face of love offerred without stint or condition but that they realize it is what they really need?
I understand, but I believe one detail was left out, which is mainly the primary thrust of my investigation.
Leaving the afterlife aside, in the context of the fundamental facet that defines universal reconciliation, what is the purpose of my relationship with Christ/God in comparison to any said person's nonexistent relationship with Christ/God? Theologically, what is the purpose of evangelizing universal reconciliation, when it is already a reality whether we evangelize it or not?
I understand, but I believe one detail was left out, which is mainly the primary thrust of my investigation.
Leaving the afterlife aside, in the context of the fundamental facet that defines universal reconciliation, what is the purpose of my relationship with Christ/God in comparison to any said person's nonexistent relationship with Christ/God? Theologically, what is the purpose of evangelizing universal reconciliation, when it is already a reality whether we evangelize it or not?
Thanks so much for your time.
I WAS leaving the afterlife aside. The point remains that what Jesus offers is "life more abundant" NOW. You don't seem to be able to get past the idea that to be a Christian you must give up something worth having. The only reason I "evangelize" universal reconcilliation is to refute the portrait of the vicious God presented by those who believe in eternal torment; God is not LIKE that.
Leaving the afterlife aside, in the context of the fundamental facet that defines universal reconciliation, what is the purpose of my relationship with Christ/God in comparison to any said person's nonexistent relationship with Christ/God? Theologically, what is the purpose of evangelizing universal reconciliation, when it is already a reality whether we evangelize it or not?
Christian Universalism . . . unlike other forms of universalist belief . . . relies on the fact that Christ abides with us FOR REAL. He is there within every human consciousness as the Comforter to guide us to the truth God has"written in our hearts." If we are not aware of this or ignore Him . . . we are uncertain what is and is not "good for our embryo Spirit's development and maturity." Life presents us many difficult and complex situations that involve and affect many people besides ourselves. Without His inner guidance, we can drift or harm ourselves or others and impede our spiritual development. The more agape love (not selfish love) we give the more we receive and the more we truly enjoy life. That is how we have life more abundantly while we are here.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 06-07-2015 at 11:53 PM..
twin.spin, do you believe you must do all Jesus said to do on the sermon on the mount in order to be saved?
Being that you embrace the heresy of millennialism, offer false hope to those who die in their unbelief and then double down on it by "mark my words" like you can guarantee it ... fact is you're so beyond the proper understanding of the sermon on the mount that it behooves a prudent leaving to your own unfortunate demise.
Being that you embrace the heresy of millennialism, offer false hope to those who die in their unbelief and then double down on it by "mark my words" like you can guarantee it ... fact is you're so beyond the proper understanding of the sermon on the mount that it behooves a prudent leaving to your own unfortunate demise.
Many years ago our pastor took the youth group I was a part of across the river from Vancouver, Washington to Portland, Oregon to go to a Jewish synagogue. We arrived as the service was ending at the rabbi's request. Then he told us many things about Jewish belief.
Our pastor, thinking to impress a group of teenagers, asked the old rabbi, "Sir, how are you going to feel when you get to the afterlife to find that Jesus Christ was really the Messiah?' To which the old rabbi replied, "I guess I would feel about the same as you will when you get there and find He is not!!"
My question to you, Twin, is ---- would you be terribly disappointed to get to heaven and find God had decided to forgive everyone--and I mean EVERYONE--for EVERYTHING! Would you rejoice, or would you grumble as did the brother of the prodigal son? I think that parable was sent out especially for those who might delight in seeing others permanently separated from God.
Understanding how to deal with other people--to reach out to them--is the difference between having the heart of God and the heart of a Pharisee.
A man died and St. Peter asked him if he would like to go
to heaven or hell. The man asked if he could see both before deciding.
St. Peter took him to hell first. There the man saw a big hall
containing a long table, laden with many kinds of food. He also saw
rows of people with pale, sad faces. They looked pale and there was no
laughter. And he observed one more thing: Their hands were tied to
four-foot forks and knives and they were trying to get the food from
the center of the table to put in their mouths. But they couldn't.
Then,
St. Peter took him to see heaven. There he saw a big hall with a long
table, and lots of food. He noticed rows of people on both sides of the
table with their hands tied to four-foot forks and knives also. But
here people were laughing and were well fed and healthy-looking. They
were feeding one another across the table.--------------
Sometimes people make their own hell, when God gives them the opportunity to share heaven with others.
twin.spin, do you believe you must do all Jesus said to do on the sermon on the mount in order to be saved?
According to universalism nothing is required. No need to love God or your neighbor. Spend your life raping and pillaging, and then hook up with the saints in heaven.
According to universalism nothing is required. No need to love God or your neighbor. Spend your life raping and pillaging, and then hook up with the saints in heaven.
Ah yes. That's the nub. While Universalism gets conveniently rid of the nasty aspect of hellthreat, it gets inconveniently rid of the need to worry about religion at all.
I believe that Eusebius may have a sort of neo purgatorial punishment which gets over the ET problem (and a problem it is and brazenly playing the "God can do whatever he likes" card, as though that made it right, only makes it look worse) but still has enough of some satisfyingly nice torment and whipping to make us afraid not to grab the Exemption ticket proffered by this or that church or denomination.
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Posted before on another thread, but it deserves a second look
