On Prophecy and Predicting the Future (agnostic, scriptures, Jesus, Bible)
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Alpha, why are you doing this, man? Can you actually defend your position on this matter with something concrete and indisputable? The rose-colored, "let me use 'faith' to magically make any scripture say what I want it to mean," tactic is dishonest, don't you think? I mean, how can someone look at the New Testament writings concerning the "last days" and not see they were not written for the very generation within which the writers lived?
Why would the writer of Thessalonians say, "and WE who remain (alive) will be caught up?" Who is "we?" Why tell this to the Thessalonians if nothing regarding this second coming concerned them in an immediate fashion?
Ok, he, like anyone else, may have thought Jesus' return was imminent because after all, no man supposedly knows the day or hour, however, I am quite sure it was the common belief of the day that Jesus was on his way back based on other New Testament scriptures even supposedly from Jesus himself. It explained why the Christian community was a type of communist/socialist community in that they held all things in common and many others sold off all their worldly possessions just like the Pre- Seventh Day Millerities did in the 1800s.
Apocalyptic books are generally written during times of great distress and uncertainty. Just check any Christian bookstores and note the abundance of "End Times" book that appear at the onset of some major global threat. All of a sudden the prophecy "experts" come out. The book of Daniel, an apocalyptic book, was written, in full or in part, during the great Jewish struggle with the Greek Selucids. The Books of Enoch and Esdras, Apocalyptic books, were written on the tail end of Greek domination or during the civil strife between the ruling Jewish Hasmonean dynasty and the upstart Pharisaical sect who were persecuted because they challenged the ruling class' authority to sit on David's throne and not being from the tribe of Judah. Then we have the books of Mark, Matthew, Luke, Jude and Revelation, apocalyptic books written during tensions between Rome and Judea. Even before all these books we have books like Isaiah and Jeremiah and other later Old Testament books containing apocalyptic writings while tension with Babylon was ripe in the air. Please take careful note that ALL these books were written and/or compiled after edit over a 500 year period a period that saw the Jewish existence threatened under the Babylonians, Greeks and Romans (I did not include the Persians because their co-existence with the Jews was rather amicable). Coincidence? I don't think so.
Apocalyptic books do NOT concern themselves with the distant future. A Christian author writing a book about the End Times is not writing it to concern himself with people 2,000 years in the future. He writes to a contemporary audience that feels the current events will affect their lives. The biblical writers were NO different.
Because I know my Redeemer lives and I completely believe and trust His word.
What I can't figure out is why you have so much passion for something you've supposedly written off completely.
I 'do this' for Him, because of what He has done for me.
Simple as that.
I'm not asking you to believe that. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm not even posting for you.
Alpha, I LOVE this stuff. I am fascinated by the human mind, human history and how religion has shaped it. Just a hobby of mine.
I'm curious though. Do you just believe or does it matter HOW and WHAT you believe and that what you believe is carefully analyzed, rightly divided, so to speak, and objective?
"Quoted": Jesus said to feed the hungry and clothe the naked. I believe today he might add, "and teach the ignorant."
I'm thankful for being simple and have come to my Lord Jesus with the faith of a child. (ignorant)!!!
Their are many who believe in God, but very few who believe God.
God Bless!
A child or simple one believes regardless..... they don't have to be educated or need of knowledge. It may seem they exhibit lack of education or are unaware and uniformed. They just believe!
That is what faith is.... believing and trusting without proof.
God Bless!!
I posted what I believe about Rev. 20 in this thread: https://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...eady-here.html . IMO, there is very little in Revelations that is dealing with the future. The only thing we are waiting on is the second coming of Christ to judge the world, "rapture", the judgement, (or in whatever order that will come) and our eternal destinies.
Father John, back to the OP, if we discount OT prophecy, there is very little of the Bible we can believe. Without a Messiah being prophecied, how do we have validity that Jesus was part of a plan, and that He was who He said He was? Jesus Himself made reference to prophecy:
Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
There are various other places in the Gospels where it mentions the scriptures being fulfilled by Jesus, which is referring to prophecy.
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