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Old 06-16-2015, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,708,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Cat View Post
Really? Most people? Have you taken a poll?

Yet my Navarre Catholic study Bible states that Peter wrote both letters attributed to him. And it's a Bible that is well versed is Bible scholarship.
Actually it isn't. It is the product of a church that glories in the idea of Peter as the first Pope. That, in and of itself, makes any so called scholarship about works traditionally attributed to Peter questionable.

There are some very good works describing in detail how first and second Peter are so drastically incongruous. One of them may be Bart Ehrman in his book "Misquoting Jesus." I prefer the scholarship of those with no vested interest in preserving traditional thought. Traditional thought, lacking modern textual discoveries and scholastic ability, inevitably has a reason for manipulating thought process. Ehrman, up front about his agnosticism (he used to be a Christian) is one I have no reason to believe, so I look at his work more objectively.

As you are a Catholic, I doubt you challenge much that the Church presents as factual.

From Wikipedia re: 2nd Peter
Most biblical scholars have concluded Peter is not the author, considering the epistle pseudepigraphical.[4][5] Reasons for this include its linguistic differences from 1 Peter, its apparent use of Jude, possible allusions to 2nd-century gnosticism, encouragement in the wake of a delayed parousia, and weak external support.[6]

The questions of authorship and date are closely related. For Petrine authorship to be authentic, it must have been written prior to Peter's death in c AD 65–67. The letter refers to the Pauline epistles and so must post-date at least some of them, regardless of authorship, thus a date before 60 is improbable. Further, it goes as far to name the Pauline epistles as "scripture" — the only time a New Testament work refers to another New Testament work in this way — implying that it postdates them by some time.[7]
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Old 06-16-2015, 08:24 PM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,784,144 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans View Post
This is completely wrong. Jesus never taught a gospel of works.

John 6:47



Where does it say you had to do anything besides believe?
Believing is doing the works of the son of man. Jesus said ; "whoever believes in me shall do the works I do"

"From the believers heart shall flow rivers of living water."

"By your words you'll be justified and by your words you'll be condemned."

"Not everyone who cries to me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of God but only those that do the will of my heavenly Father."

"My brothers mother and sisters hear the word of God and do it."

"No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and spirit."

"Genuine worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth."

"Enter by the narrow gate for the gate is broad and the road is easy that leads to destruction and many travel it but the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life and there are few who find it."

"If you wish to be made perfect sell what you have and give to the poor so your treasure will be great in heaven and come follow me."

"If you continue in my word you are truly my disciple then you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

"If the son frees you you shall truly be free."

"If you abide in me and my word abides in you you may ask what you will and it shall be done for you. My Father is glorified in your bearing much fruit and becoming my disciple."

"I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name."

"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

"But as for that in the good soil, these are the ones who, when they hear the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance."
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Old 06-16-2015, 08:43 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Believing is doing the works of the son of man. Jesus said ; "whoever believes in me shall do the works I do"


And the works that he did were the works of the Father...
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:54 PM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,784,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
[/i][/b]

And the works that he did were the works of the Father...
Yes. The works I do in my Father's name bear witness for me. The works the Father gave me to do, the very works I am doing testify God sent me.

"The Lord is righteous in all His ways and holy in all His works."
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Old 06-17-2015, 06:17 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Yes. The works I do in my Father's name bear witness for me. The works the Father gave me to do, the very works I am doing testify God sent me.

"The Lord is righteous in all His ways and holy in all His works."
And He changes not...So, Yeshua was a Torah observant Jew...
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:31 AM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,784,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
And He changes not...So, Yeshua was a Torah observant Jew...
He kept the law of God and kept the truth.

What does a Torah observant Jew do in your way of thinking?
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:52 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,979,004 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Believing is doing the works of the son of man. Jesus said ; "whoever believes in me shall do the works I do"

"From the believers heart shall flow rivers of living water."

"By your words you'll be justified and by your words you'll be condemned."

"Not everyone who cries to me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of God but only those that do the will of my heavenly Father."

"My brothers mother and sisters hear the word of God and do it."

"No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and spirit."

"Genuine worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth."

"Enter by the narrow gate for the gate is broad and the road is easy that leads to destruction and many travel it but the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life and there are few who find it."

"If you wish to be made perfect sell what you have and give to the poor so your treasure will be great in heaven and come follow me."

"If you continue in my word you are truly my disciple then you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

"If the son frees you you shall truly be free."

"If you abide in me and my word abides in you you may ask what you will and it shall be done for you. My Father is glorified in your bearing much fruit and becoming my disciple."

"I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name."

"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

"But as for that in the good soil, these are the ones who, when they hear the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance."
Doing works has nothing to do with salvation. The works are done as a result of what you believe. Take that verse in it's full context. It doesn't say you are saved so you do works. It is saying your works come as a result of you believing. The works that you produce are a byproduct of your belief in him.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:33 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
He kept the law of God and kept the truth.

What does a Torah observant Jew do in your way of thinking?
Observes and practices all the mitzvot...
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:34 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans View Post
Doing works has nothing to do with salvation. The works are done as a result of what you believe. Take that verse in it's full context. It doesn't say you are saved so you do works. It is saying your works come as a result of you believing. The works that you produce are a byproduct of your belief in him.
That's not what HaShem has stated....
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Old 06-17-2015, 12:55 PM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,784,144 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans View Post
Doing works has nothing to do with salvation. The works are done as a result of what you believe. Take that verse in it's full context. It doesn't say you are saved so you do works. It is saying your works come as a result of you believing. The works that you produce are a byproduct of your belief in him.
In that verse Jesus defines believing in Him. It is not as man thinks. Believing is doing the works.
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