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This topic came up independently in two threads. It was claimed that St. Paul, who authored most of the Christian New Testament, was actually a heretic.
Is it true? If Paul was a heretic, then why didn't the early Christians reject his writings? How did his writings make it into the Christian canon? Why didn't the early church cast him out? Did any of Paul's contemporaries in the nascent Christian movement consider him to be a heretic?
Peter nailed it: "just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.…" 2 pet 3:15
Paul was an intellectual and sometimes explained things using a convoluted thought process that is difficult to follow. He also tended to be emphatic in his advice and people looking for authority used that as an excuse to make what he had to say into rules for the church as a whole. One of the most difficult things for people to grasp is that he taught that we are not under law as such, that when we are in Christ there is no need for law as we will not do anything harmful to ourselves or others, and since that is the purpose of law, law is fulfilled in that determination. Therefore law may be a good guide for conduct, but anything we think is law is subject to review under the greatest "commandment" of Jesus, that of concern for the well-being of anyone in any situation. Some people grasped at the idea that we are not under law and used it to say "anything goes" but did not examine what harm might come of their free rein. Paul's letter to the Corinthians particularly addresses this travesty, and of course it is taken by the authoritarians to say "these are the 'Christian laws.'"
No, Paul did not differ from Christ, but he is much misunderstood.
The book of James. Why do you think Luther called it the Epistle of Straw?
Good call. The point of James is not that salvation is earned by works, but that "faith" is a commitment to a Way that is based on love. Of course works of love will be evidence of that commitment.
The book of James. Why do you think Luther called it the Epistle of Straw?
What does that have to do with Paul? Paul didn't write James. James wrote that book. I'm not sure why this is relevant. Can you explain further what you asking about specifically?
What does that have to do with Paul? Paul didn't write James. James wrote that book. I'm not sure why this is relevant. Can you explain further what you asking about specifically?
True, Paul did not write James. I was making a point that "Grace Alone" and "Faith Alone" are not supported by the book of James. Yes, it was off-topic.
Last edited by Freak80; 06-11-2015 at 04:21 PM..
Reason: added comma
If you take the bible as a whole, Paul's writings fit perfectly as they describe the New Covenant. There's a gulf bigger than the Grand Canyon between the law of Moses and the covenant we have with God now.
To believe otherwise is to make Christ's death of none effect.
The apostles didn't think he was a heretic especially when Paul went to Jerusalem to confront the apostles. They had their chance right then and there to call him a heretic. Rather they embraced him as the apostle of the nations with a different calling, allotment and message.
There were people of the day that also embraced the Pharisees..
Peter nailed it: "just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.…" 2 pet 3:15
Paul was an intellectual and sometimes explained things using a convoluted thought process that is difficult to follow. He also tended to be emphatic in his advice and people looking for authority used that as an excuse to make what he had to say into rules for the church as a whole. One of the most difficult things for people to grasp is that he taught that we are not under law as such, that when we are in Christ there is no need for law as we will not do anything harmful to ourselves or others, and since that is the purpose of law, law is fulfilled in that determination. Therefore law may be a good guide for conduct, but anything we think is law is subject to review under the greatest "commandment" of Jesus, that of concern for the well-being of anyone in any situation. Some people grasped at the idea that we are not under law and used it to say "anything goes" but did not examine what harm might come of their free rein. Paul's letter to the Corinthians particularly addresses this travesty, and of course it is taken by the authoritarians to say "these are the 'Christian laws.'" No, Paul did not differ from Christ, but he is much misunderstood.
I suppose one might find the means to justify Paul's contradictory words? Surely he was not speaking for the God of LOVE, MERCY and JUSTICE..
Jesus ministered to the sinners, with no reluctance to engage adulterers, prostitutes, publicans, tax collectors, lepers, or any other “unclean” person (the whole need not a physician; a church is a hospital for sinners rather than a showcase for saints). This, of course, completely devastates the argument that god cannot be in the presence of sin by anyone who believes Jesus was god.
Paul contradicts Jesus in 1Cor 5:11: “But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”
There were people of the day that also embraced the Pharisees..
But the writings of the Pharisees never became the bulk of the New Testament. Paul's did. If Paul was a heretic, why did that occur? Clearly, early Christianity did not see Paul as a heretic.
Jesus ministered to the sinners, with no reluctance to engage adulterers, prostitutes, publicans, tax collectors, lepers, or any other “unclean” person (the whole need not a physician; a church is a hospital for sinners rather than a showcase for saints). This, of course, completely devastates the argument that god cannot be in the presence of sin by anyone who believes Jesus was god.
Truth speaks, good point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
Paul contradicts Jesus in 1Cor 5:11: “But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”
Paul wasn't contradicting, he was writing to a weak group of new believers who didn't know how to handle such things. It's important to look at context throughout scripture or we will be thrown all over the place doctrinally.
I suppose one might find the means to justify Paul's contradictory words? Surely he was not speaking for the God of LOVE, MERCY and JUSTICE..
Jesus ministered to the sinners, with no reluctance to engage adulterers, prostitutes, publicans, tax collectors, lepers, or any other “unclean” person (the whole need not a physician; a church is a hospital for sinners rather than a showcase for saints). This, of course, completely devastates the argument that god cannot be in the presence of sin by anyone who believes Jesus was god.
Paul contradicts Jesus in 1Cor 5:11: “But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”
You are right, that is a clear contradiction of Jesus' acts of eating with sinners, etc. Thank you for pointing that out.
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