Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If that were all he based it on you would have a point. I have not had his experiences, but I see and say essentially the same thing. I just call it reading and understanding what Jesus had to say in the context of His culture.
Right, because we're no longer conscious of sin; where there is no law, there is no awareness of sin.
G.R.A.C.E. - it's a fact that people living under grace have better lives than those living under law. They're cleaner living, don't judge (!) and are set free from bondages, addictions, etc.
They which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. (Rom 5:17)
There are staples of Christianity found in Paul's writings that expound on the freedom we have as children of God. If you want to remain under law, then I will break this news to you...
...you're not a Christian, sorry.
Just wow.
"Sin" under the New Covenant is "missing the mark" that Jesus set with the New Commandment. Yes, we "blow it" on occasion, but the point is that we commnit to a life in which that concern for the well-being of everyone "agape" is the main factor.
What little elmer seems to be talking about is that "sin" under the Old Covenant was breaking the Law and we are not under Law any more. The intent and purpose of law as facilitating social order is fulfilled in that "agape." Our freedon is that we are not bound by letters of law, but able to examine any law to see if it meets the condition of love and our actions are an expression of that love that we live by (however imperfectly).
We read and hear it, and we examine what is reported in the light of what we know about His message, realizing that the recorders of the words used are prone to error, but the spirit will always shine through. Of course this applies to what is recorded as coming from Paul as well.
Just wow.
"Sin" under the New Covenant is "missing the mark" that Jesus set with the New Commandment. Yes, we "blow it" on occasion, but the point is that we commnit to a life in which that concern for the well-being of everyone "agape" is the main factor.
What little elmer seems to be talking about is that "sin" under the Old Covenant was breaking the Law and we are not under Law anymore. The intent and purpose of law as facilitating social order is fulfilled in that "agape." Our freedom is that we are not bound by letters of law, but able to examine any law to see if it meets the condition of love and our actions are an expression of that love that we live by (however imperfectly).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
We read and hear it, and we examine what is reported in the light of what we know about His message, realizing that the recorders of the words used are prone to error, but the spirit will always shine through. Of course this applies to what is recorded as coming from Paul as well.
Well said, nate. The Spirit of agape love (who IS God) is an absolute standard and brooks no rationalizations. If something is compatible with the Spirit of agape love . . it is moral. If it is NOT then it is immoral or sin (missing the mark). Of course, if it is neither compatible nor incompatible then it is amoral . . . meaning it has nothing to do with morality or sin. This absolute standard of God's truth is applied no matter who the verses are attributed to . . . Paul, Jesus, Peter, etc. or ANY of the OT authors.
We may not have always have to see eye to eye on things, but you seem like an intelligent person who is actually seeking truthful answers and not just accepting what people tell you. I think you are reading between the lines. Something isn't quite adding up with these individuals. Why are two individuals, who basically claim to be Christian, state that it has been a corrupt religion from the jump? Then to top it off, these are two individuals who do not believe written text gives them any kind of understanding about what happened, but they miraculously know what was right or wrong? Does that really make sense to you?
It doesn't make any sense to me. If someone thinks Religion X was corrupt since its founding, why would that person want to be part of Religion X?
That's why I made the analogy of a hypothetical Muslim who thinks Mohammed was a false prophet. I'd be skeptical of the person's claim to be a Muslim, even though I'm wary of the No True Scotsman fallacy.
This topic came up independently in two threads. It was claimed that St. Paul, who authored most of the Christian New Testament, was actually a heretic.
Is it true? If Paul was a heretic, then why didn't the early Christians reject his writings? How did his writings make it into the Christian canon? Why didn't the early church cast him out? Did any of Paul's contemporaries in the nascent Christian movement consider him to be a heretic?
I haven't read your thread yet, but I'm just going to give my .02...
Nah, Paul wasn't a heretic... he was just a man. Some of the writings attributed to him seem downright inspired, other stuff not so much. Some of it was just him giving the best advice he knew how, based on the lens he viewed things through due to the time and culture in which he lived, and based on his own human reasoning and prejudices, which wasn't always spot on any more than any other human's would be.
Why does it seem we're all so often quick to make these big judgments on people that they're either completely one thing or another? That's never the case.
Paul is not contradicting Jesus, but speaking about an entirely different case: he is talking about continuing in sin after having theoretically come to Christ. I'm sure you don't mean that we should do this? If not, what is our course of action? It is outlined for us in how to approach an erring brother.
But thank you for the example of how Paul can be misunderstood.
I would say the passage means don't "keep him company" in what he's doing. If he's getting drunk, don't you get drunk. If she's cheating on her husband, don't cheat on your spouse. If they're gossiping about other people, don't join in. Doesn't mean you can't be with the person, just don't do the unloving things they're doing.
We read and hear it, and we examine what is reported in the light of what we know about His message, realizing that the recorders of the words used are prone to error, but the spirit will always shine through. Of course this applies to what is recorded as coming from Paul as well.
Oh you read? What do you read?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Deep meditation opens the mind to all sorts of things. Mystic's experience has been shared by MANY people.
