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Is there proof there were righteous men before Jesus came?
David says yes. Jesus quoted David so this shows He approved of David. This then should be proof that those who kept the ways of the Lord, who kept His ordinances and statutes as David describes, were righteous and sinless in God's eyes.
Samuel2:21
"The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands he recompensed me. 22 For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God. 23 For all his ordinances were before me, and from his statutes I did not turn aside. 24 I was blameless before him, and I kept myself from guilt. 25 Therefore the LORD has recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to my cleanness in his sight. 26 "With the loyal thou dost show thyself loyal; with the blameless man thou dost show thyself blameless; 27 with the pure thou dost show thyself pure, and with the crooked thou dost show thyself perverse. 28 Thou dost deliver a humble people, but thy eyes are upon the haughty to bring them down."
well, apparently Enoch in genesis 5:24 was considered righteous/good enough to "walk with God" and to eventually be taken up by him to heaven without dying. Elijah the prophet was also good enough to be taken to heaven in a "chariot of fire" in 2 Kings 2:11. Joseph, the husband of Mary and "foster father" of Jesus was called a "righteous" (sometimes also translated as "just") man" in Matt. 1:19.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 03-28-2015 at 11:16 AM..
Reason: more info.
well, apparently Enoch in genesis 5:24 was considered righteous/good enough to "walk with God" and to eventually be taken up by him to heaven without dying. Elijah the prophet was also good enough to be taken to heaven in a "chariot of fire" in 2 Kings 2:11. Joseph, the husband of Mary and "foster father" of Jesus was called a "righteous" (sometimes also translated as "just") man" in Matt. 1:19.
Correct. Why then do people believe Paul when he claimed people cannot be righteous. That they are only righteous by what Jesus did for them. This is a total misunderstanding and is not based on the word of God and the prophets but on one verse and not in the total context of what God has said.
Correct. Why then do people believe Paul when he claimed people cannot be righteous. That they are only righteous by what Jesus did for them. This is a total misunderstanding and is not based on the word of God and the prophets but on one verse and not in the total context of what God has said.
Read Romans. Were any righteous by keeping the Law? No. Paul makes that explicitly clear in chapters 3-5 of Romans. Not David, not Enoch...nobody. How were they righteous? Because of their faith. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. They believed that God would keep the promise of sending the Messiah to redeem his people.
Read Romans. Were any righteous by keeping the Law? No. Paul makes that explicitly clear in chapters 3-5 of Romans. Not David, not Enoch...nobody. How were they righteous? Because of their faith. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. They believed that God would keep the promise of sending the Messiah to redeem his people.
Paul says that is why Abraham was righteous but that is not the case. Abraham was righteous because He walked in God's presence as He was told to do just as David was righteous because he kept the law, the ways of the Lord and His statutes.
I believe David whom Jesus approved.
Paul says that is why Abraham was righteous but that is not the case. Abraham was righteous because He walked in God's presence as He was told to do just as David was righteous because he kept the law, the ways of the Lord and His statutes.
I believe David whom Jesus approved.
I'm sorry...but if you're not going to believe what Scripture says I guess we don't really have a lot of common ground.
The world was, and is full of good people. They live(d) their lives happily among family and friends. They work cooperatively with their neighbors. They have a deep appreciation of Earth's bounty. They did not waste, shared, respected women, and took care of their elderly.
Is there proof there were righteous men before Jesus came?
Were Socrates and Plato the same man?
These are genuine questions but ones that, at the end of the day, are meaningless. Was Jesus one man? Was he even a man or a god? Or was he an amalgamation of half fulfilled prophecy and rumour.... and the many words of many popular preachers of "his" time?
And is this not the danger of religion? That it makes a personality cult out of a person or people... at the genuine expense of their ideas?
Were Socrates and Plato the same man? Maybe. Maybe not. But ask yourself a key KEY question. Is there anything of any actual value or worth that he/they ever said that would lose its value if you knew the answer to that question?
And given your answer to that question.... is there anything of any ACTUAL value to a "True Christian" that would lose or gain worth if you found out for a Fact tomorrow that Jesus was one man, one god, three men, many men, or never existed at all?
Surely as Christians you realise that what actually makes you a "Christian" is actually quite independent of Christ? Was it not said that by only the fruits of Christ will you "know them"?
Were any "righteous" before Jesus came? I answer: Before, during AND after.
I'm sorry...but if you're not going to believe what Scripture says I guess we don't really have a lot of common ground.
Jesus quoted scripture. He approved of the prophets. I believe what He has said and the prophets before Him. Paul shows His misunderstanding but people continue to believe in him. His words are not scripture. It is you who do not believe scripture which contradicts your belief in false scripture.
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