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How can the attraction NOT be sin, but the "action" is?
So if two people from the LGBT community marry (SSM) and never have sex, then this marriage would be acceptable?
As I said on the prior page - it's not a marriage in God's sight.
I suppose in light of the beattitudes in Matthew 5, it is sinful to have those thoughts - and those who follow Christ can repent privately with Him. Totally different when it is acted out and other are involved.
Hello, fellow Christians, Christian ethusiest, skeptics, etc. I won't state what my current view is in terms of my personal beliefs, but I just wanted to ask a question. Please refrain from including a prejudice stance, thank you very much!
In the bible (correct me if I am wrong) same-sex sexual intercourse is categorized as a sin because there is an actual scripture that states so, but is there any scripture that specifically states that being born a homosexual, or having an attraction towards that same gender is a sin?
You should really consider the reasons stated or implied for the condemnation in the passages: essentially it is almost always a condemnation of religious practices or profligate behavior. The very fact that there is a measurable percentage of same sex attraction in the population (somewhere around 3%?) should be an indication to you that it is not a matter of sin in itself, and the fact that there is no more harm to society as a whole or individuals involved in a same sex relationship than there is in a heterosexual one, while there is a great deal of harm in demonizing it (suicide rate among gay teens for instance) should give you some indication as to whether it is sin in itself if you are capable of rational thought.
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Since marriage is categorized being between a man and a woman, since this marriage involves being married under the church, would same-sex unions under the government not violate this law? Is there a specific scripture that states same sex couples unionizing is a sin?
Marriage is actually described between a man and a woman as that is by far the greatest norm, but a description is not a law, and exceptions are not at all unreasonable
Really appreciate the comments! I was just curious to those questions. I usually see very religious people (not all Christians are religious in the traditional sense) stating that the bible states "being gay is a sin" or "gay marriage is a sin" when the bible defines marriage between being a man and a woman therefore anything other than that wouldn't be biblically categorized as being "marriage" and since same-sex unions are not condemned or categorized as sin, I was curious to what it meant. In addition the whole debacle over people being born homosexual is debatable but even if it is or isn't true, at the end the biblical scriptures don't condemn same sex attractions.
Thanks for the clarification! Btw, I'm not gay I was just curious to those questions that popped up in my head.
Really appreciate the comments! I was just curious to those questions. I usually see very religious people (not all Christians are religious in the traditional sense) stating that the bible states "being gay is a sin" or "gay marriage is a sin" when the bible defines marriage between being a man and a woman therefore anything other than that wouldn't be biblically categorized as being "marriage" and since same-sex unions are not condemned or categorized as sin, I was curious to what it meant. In addition the whole debacle over people being born homosexual is debatable but even if it is or isn't true, at the end the biblical scriptures don't condemn same sex attractions.
Thanks for the clarification! Btw, I'm not gay I was just curious to those questions that popped up in my head.
In Scripture whether from genetics, environment, life's experiences, etc. would Not justify: fornication.
Jesus used the word fornication instead of adultery - Matthew 19:9 - because fornication covers more than adultery.
The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia. Porneia is also where we get the English word pornography or porn. So, any sex act outside of scriptural marriage - Genesis 2:24 - would be the sin of fornication. Porneia would even include having sex with an animal as fornication. - Lev. 18:22,24,25
And others will DENY context to prove discrimination and bigotry are endorsed by god-n-the-tiny-bo..
Well true, but in David's case we know he did not have sex with Jonathan and Saul wanted him dead for another reason. God in a box is where man wants him. He won't fit.
How can the attraction NOT be sin, but the "action" is?
So if two people from the LGBT community marry (SSM) and never have sex, then this marriage would be acceptable?
In man's eyes but not God's. In God's eyes they would just be ... two people living together in the same house.
Now two men can live together just as two women can. Love between them would include not wanting them to be alienated from God, so sex would not be a part of the equation. True love seeks the best for a person not the worst.
On the other hand if sexual attraction existed, they would not live together so as to avoid it, just as a man and a woman would avoid living together without marriage, to avoid sex.
In Scripture whether from genetics, environment, life's experiences, etc. would Not justify: fornication.
Jesus used the word fornication instead of adultery - Matthew 19:9 - because fornication covers more than adultery.
The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia. Porneia is also where we get the English word pornography or porn. So, any sex act outside of scriptural marriage - Genesis 2:24 - would be the sin of fornication. Porneia would even include having sex with an animal as fornication. - Lev. 18:22,24,25
The word translated as “fornication” in the Bible is the Greek word porneia (πορνεία). The thing is, this word does not literally translate as “premarital sex” the way the religious would like you to believe it does. In fact, it’s generally agreed that the most accurate translation of porneia is “illicit sexual activity” (or “immoral sexual activity”). Some of the more modern versions of Scripture actually do translate porneia as “sexual immorality” rather than “fornication,” which many think is a far superior way of rendering it because it raises questions for us instead of spelling out a definite answer.
Now, we could go over each occurrence of the word porneia in the New Testament, but it would be better for you go over them for yourself. Above is a link that has every occurrence of the word in the KJV where it’s translated “fornication.”
What we should do is read each passage and replace the word “fornication” with the word porneia in our minds, and then think about whether premarital sex is what the passage is definitely talking about.
You’ll find that, at least in most (if not all) cases, there’s little to no justification for making that assumption.
The truth is, the word porneia actually had multiple meanings, depending on the context it was being used in. It is believed that it spoke of sexual idolatry in some cases, referring to using temple prostitutes for fertility goddess worship. It was also used in reference to any sexual practice that was considered obscene, such as incest or bestiality. There was also a spiritual meaning to the word in some cases (the idea of worshipping other gods). The thing to take away from all this is that we can’t simply take the word and force the meaning of premarital sex onto it, despite the fact that our pastors would probably prefer we did.
If we take the term “illicit sexual activity” literally, it means sexual activity that breaks the law. Generally, here in the western world, premarital sex doesn’t break the law, and it certainly wasn’t against the law among the gentiles Paul wrote to when he told Christians to avoid porneia. In fact, it wasn’t even technically against the Mosaic law among the Jews, at least not for men. For women, it depended on how much of a bride price their fathers wanted in exchange for selling them to their future husbands. Remember, women were considered property back then among many cultures including the Jews, and virgins went for a higher price (this is also why adultery was considered wrong, because it was a violation of a man’s property rights.
The word translated as “fornication” in the Bible is the Greek word porneia (πορνεία). The thing is, this word does not literally translate as “premarital sex” the way the religious would like you to believe it does. In fact, it’s generally agreed that the most accurate translation of porneia is “illicit sexual activity” (or “immoral sexual activity”). Some of the more modern versions of Scripture actually do translate porneia as “sexual immorality” rather than “fornication,” which many think is a far superior way of rendering it because it raises questions for us instead of spelling out a definite answer.
Now, we could go over each occurrence of the word porneia in the New Testament, but it would be better for you go over them for yourself. Above is a link that has every occurrence of the word in the KJV where it’s translated “fornication.”
What we should do is read each passage and replace the word “fornication” with the word porneia in our minds, and then think about whether premarital sex is what the passage is definitely talking about.
You’ll find that, at least in most (if not all) cases, there’s little to no justification for making that assumption.
The truth is, the word porneia actually had multiple meanings, depending on the context it was being used in. It is believed that it spoke of sexual idolatry in some cases, referring to using temple prostitutes for fertility goddess worship. It was also used in reference to any sexual practice that was considered obscene, such as incest or bestiality. There was also a spiritual meaning to the word in some cases (the idea of worshipping other gods). The thing to take away from all this is that we can’t simply take the word and force the meaning of premarital sex onto it, despite the fact that our pastors would probably prefer we did.
If we take the term “illicit sexual activity” literally, it means sexual activity that breaks the law. Generally, here in the western world, premarital sex doesn’t break the law, and it certainly wasn’t against the law among the gentiles Paul wrote to when he told Christians to avoid porneia. In fact, it wasn’t even technically against the Mosaic law among the Jews, at least not for men. For women, it depended on how much of a bride price their fathers wanted in exchange for selling them to their future husbands. Remember, women were considered property back then among many cultures including the Jews, and virgins went for a higher price (this is also why adultery was considered wrong, because it was a violation of a man’s property rights.
Yeah, I know...and God never said Eve was supposed to touch the fruit. How did that turn out? How did those who practiced polygamy turn out?
Not interested in a long discussion on gay marriage. The OP had an issue. I addressed in a matter of fact manner. I know you stand against God's principle on this and you are not interested in changing. I ain't changing either...so whatever....
No, I stand against your all too human "principles."
Are you saying David and Abraham really were not men after God's own heart--because they had multiple wives--which in at least one case God CLAIMS He GAVE to the king?
2 Samuel 12:8, God speaking--I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more.
Did God then sin against His own word? He Himself GAVE those wives to David--David fell into sin when all the wives God gave Him weren't enough.
How about Moses? Moses was one of God’s big shots. It was Moses whom God called from a burning bush in Horeb to go back to Egypt for the purpose of delivering the plain message to Pharaoh, “Let my son [Israel] go, that he may serve me” (Exodus 4:23). Moses was the husband of at least three wives. Zipporah was Moses’ first wife (Exodus 2:21), the Ethiopian woman was his second wife (Numbers 12:1), and Holy Scripture mentions Hobab, the Kenite as the father of Moses’ third wife (Judges 4:11). These are three of the wives of Moses recorded in Scripture. There may have been many others that were not recorded. Moses was 80 years old when God called him to deliver Israel. It was after this age that God gave him more wives, more helpmates. When God took him away at age 120, “his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated” (Deuteronomy 34:7).
You hold onto a CULTURAL concept--and I don't think it's necessarily improper--it's just not biblical. But then a fundamentalist doesn't need something to be "biblical" in order for something to be evil in his/her eyes.
In Revelation 22:18 you got a warning for adding to scripture (it was actually meant solely for the book of Revelation, but I'm using your own beliefs against you with this)--"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book."
Just stick to the facts written in the bible. I can explain, but you believe the Bible is the inerrant, infallible Word of God. You should need no explanation--it should be very plain according to your perfect book.
Except it isn't.
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