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The only context you propose is the context of biased atheists who have a deeply rooted resentment for the things of God. Sorry but you can use words like moldy oldly all you want, but it won't change the truth about God's Word.
The Bible was written by 40 authors over 1500 years and yet has a remarkable consistency. One of those consistencies is the heroes of the Bible are always presented in their sinful real state. No white washing. Samson, Moses, David, King Saul, Solomon all failed God miserably. Archaeology backs up the Bible, and anytime the Bible stories intersect with other cultures like Egypt, the accounts offer up lots of intricate accurate details about that culture which would be difficult for some ignorant shepherds.
If the Bible was fabricated as a work of fiction, when even include things like prophecies, lineages and genealogies which could expose them as frauds? Did Homer ever do that?
In the bible (correct me if I am wrong) same-sex sexual intercourse is categorized as a sin because there is an actual scripture that states so, but is there any scripture that specifically states that being born a homosexual, or having an attraction towards that same gender is a sin?
We are all born sinners. Homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, etc. That doesn't give us an excuse to live in sin.
2 Peter 1 3His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasroane
We are all born sinners. Homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, etc. That doesn't give us an excuse to live in sin.
2 Peter 1 3His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
Because we have no reason to believe they were gay. David is extremely heterosexual in the Biblical account. He actually lusted so strongly for Bathsheba that he had her husband murdered so he could have her. He also refers to Jonathan has his brother, not his lover.
Your argument fails because Jesus never spoke against prostitution or bestiality so if absence means no condemnation then such actions are perfectly fine too!
So you are saying a man who has desire for both men and women is not "gay?" Have you not memorized David's "gay" verse?
Quote:
I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.
2 Samuel 1:26
Perhaps David knew there would never be another man so close in his heart (and arms)
Quote:
As soon as he had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. And Saul took him that day and would not let him return to his father's house. Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul. And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, and his armor, and even his sword and his bow and his belt.
1 Samuel 18:1-4
Or how about this from Saul toward Jonathan who was lying to protect David:
Quote:
"You son of a perverse, rebellious woman, do I not know that you have chosen the son of Jesse to your own shame, and to the shame of your mother's nakedness? For as long as the son of Jesse lives on the earth, neither you nor your kingdom shall be established. Therefore send and bring him to me, for he shall surely die."
I Samuel 20:30-31
Those verses are significant because Saul infers that there is a sexual element between Jonathan and David's relationship when he states that "Jonathan (has) chosen David to the shame of his mother's nakedness." In Mosaic law, when a mother's nakedness was mentioned, it referred to sexual impropriety and shame, as in Leviticus 18:6-8 and in Leviticus 20:18.Through this statement, Saul infers that he knows David and Jonathan are in love with each other and that he forbids their relationship as he believes that it is shameful.
The point is--you haven't any reason to be 100% sure that this was NOT a homosexual relationship. From your standpoint it would mean your entire concept of the Bible goes down the tubes. Your hatred and disgust "unbiblical," and your ugliness toward homosexuals you have never met is nothing but sin.
From my standpoint it means nothing at all one way or another.
The difference is that you will have to answer to MY God, for declaring love between two men or women to be sinful. If I'm wrong, I will have sinned by being better and more loving than YOUR jesus christ.
The answer to those verses is that no one can be 100% for sure, but there is some strange language coming out of Saul's mouth about Jonathan's relationship being a "shame of your own mother's nakedness."
Study to show yourself approved by God rightly dividing the word of truth. You have chosen to refuse to accept the "dark" side of these verses in order to maintain the darkness in your own heart.
Quote:
For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.
John 3:20-21
Just admit who you are and come to a new understanding of Scripture. It may lead you into light.
The only context you propose is the context of biased atheists who have a deeply rooted resentment for the things of God. Sorry but you can use words like moldy oldly all you want, but it won't change the truth about God's Word.
The Bible was written by 40 authors over 1500 years and yet has a remarkable consistency. One of those consistencies is the heroes of the Bible are always presented in their sinful real state. No white washing. Samson, Moses, David, King Saul, Solomon all failed God miserably. Archaeology backs up the Bible, and anytime the Bible stories intersect with other cultures like Egypt, the accounts offer up lots of intricate accurate details about that culture which would be difficult for some ignorant shepherds.
If the Bible was fabricated as a work of fiction, when even include things like prophecies, lineages and genealogies which could expose them as frauds? Did Homer ever do that?
I understand you are one of the ones unable to separate truth from myth, fable from reality. And you're likely to have company for another generation or so.
But soon after, you'll all die out and your archaic, ugly belief system will die with you.
And for the umpteenth time, I'm not an atheist -- not that there's anything wrong with that.
No it's amazing the mental gymnastics required for pro-gay Christians to twist very clear scripture. I read a passage that says it is unnatural and wrong for a man to lie with another man and somehow that is not clear enough? Or that homosexuals with not inherit the kingdom of God. I think somewhere in heaven, the authors of the Bible are banging their heads against the pearly gates saying, "cmon what else could we have said to let people no with no doubt that homosexuality is wrong?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
They could have said, "Don't you know that God makes arbitrary laws that have no basis in the harm done to any individual or society and then gives people desires to have fulfilling relationships so He can watch them twist in the wind."
But they disn't say anything even remotely like that, did they jeffbase40? What they did was talk about the difference between the letter of the law and the Spirit, and about using concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation as a guide to actions and perceptions. They spoke about the fact that it is not about rules, but about what is beneficial or not, and they indicated that there was a NEW way of learning. They talked about searching the scriptures because people had the wrong idea of what the scriptures could do, but failing to come to Christ who IS what those scriptures pointed to.
You are on the wrong footing, jeffbase40. Find out what it means to love.
Hello, fellow Christians, Christian ethusiest, skeptics, etc. I won't state what my current view is in terms of my personal beliefs, but I just wanted to ask a question. Please refrain from including a prejudice stance, thank you very much!
In the bible (correct me if I am wrong) same-sex sexual intercourse is categorized as a sin because there is an actual scripture that states so, but is there any scripture that specifically states that being born a homosexual, or having an attraction towards that same gender is a sin?
Since marriage is categorized being between a man and a woman, since this marriage involves being married under the church, would same-sex unions under the government not violate this law? Is there a specific scripture that states same sex couples unionizing is a sin?
Hello DeadSoul. I would like to come at this with a different perspective. In Hebrew the word Kilayim results in confusion. First Corinthians 14:33. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace as in all churches of the saints. Leviticus 18:22-23. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 19: 19. Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall any garment mingled of Linen and woolen, come upon thee.
Deuteronomy 22:5. The woman shall not wear that which pertain unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.
Deuteronomy 22: 10. Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.
Second Corinthians 6: 14. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?
Paul took the physical into the spiritual.
What the Bible wants you to see is that improper mixing in God's eyes is not what he intended for us to do
I am not judging anyone I leave that for God to do. For a long time I could not understand why the mixing of these things was wrong. The
Born-again Jerry
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