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Old 07-11-2015, 02:15 PM
 
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Hello, fellow Christians, Christian ethusiest, skeptics, etc. I won't state what my current view is in terms of my personal beliefs, but I just wanted to ask a question. Please refrain from including a prejudice stance, thank you very much!

In the bible (correct me if I am wrong) same-sex sexual intercourse is categorized as a sin because there is an actual scripture that states so, but is there any scripture that specifically states that being born a homosexual, or having an attraction towards that same gender is a sin?

Since marriage is categorized being between a man and a woman, since this marriage involves being married under the church, would same-sex unions under the government not violate this law? Is there a specific scripture that states same sex couples unionizing is a sin?
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Old 07-11-2015, 03:40 PM
 
43,961 posts, read 25,530,264 times
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The attraction is not sin. The action is sin.

Everyone has a predisposition to at least one style of sinful behavior. All have a choice whether or not to act on sinful urges...and at some point, we have all sinned.

I don't believe God considers same sex unions as marriages. Marriage, by design, is one man and one woman. Anything else is not a marriage.
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:00 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 15,727,426 times
Reputation: 9322
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadSoul103 View Post
Hello, fellow Christians, Christian ethusiest, skeptics, etc. I won't state what my current view is in terms of my personal beliefs, but I just wanted to ask a question. Please refrain from including a prejudice stance, thank you very much!

In the bible (correct me if I am wrong) same-sex sexual intercourse is categorized as a sin because there is an actual scripture that states so, but is there any scripture that specifically states that being born a homosexual, or having an attraction towards that same gender is a sin?

Since marriage is categorized being between a man and a woman, since this marriage involves being married under the church, would same-sex unions under the government not violate this law? Is there a specific scripture that states same sex couples unionizing is a sin?
King David and Jonathan had a love that was said to be greater than that between a man and a woman. They did not engage in sex. Sex between two people not in a biblical marriage is the sin, not love.

Sex is not a necessity nor the most important expression of genuine love.

As to the question of being born a homosexual or not, is immaterial.Many is slowly degrading from what man was created like and the various issue man faces today as to genetic issues, is simply a part of that deterioration.Part of being a Christian is controlling our desires, to avoid doing that which is not what God wishes for us to do. We are told by Jesus that the most important love is that of God, Then love of neighbor. The word for love there is not sex and Greek had a separate word for that. Agape, the word used , is superior to Eros, and is a genuine love developed between God and man, and man and man, that is superior to the fleshly inclinations.
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,459,432 times
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
The attraction is not sin. The action is sin.

Everyone has a predisposition to at least one style of sinful behavior. All have a choice whether or not to act on sinful urges...and at some point, we have all sinned.

I don't believe God considers same sex unions as marriages. Marriage, by design, is one man and one woman. Anything else is not a marriage.
Except monogamy was never God's design unless He changed His mind. When did He do that?

The question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it. The first instance of polygamy/bigamy in the Bible was that of Lamech in Genesis 4:19: “Lamech married two women.” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. In 2 Samuel 12:8, God, speaking through the prophet Nathan, said that if David’s wives and concubines were not enough, He would have given David even more. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status), according to 1 Kings 11:3. What are we to do with these instances of polygamy in the Old Testament?

God never condemned it once--nor is there one whit of evidence that it was an "old" covenant convention. Even in Timothy Paul does not write caution one man, one woman, but warns that LEADERS of the church should have but one wife, following God 's injunction (in Kings?) that a leader of the Israelites should not be one of MANY wives.

That fact alone debunks the idea that marriage is god-ordained as one man, one woman. That is a relatively recent cultural convention, nothing more. After the thirty years war, the Church issued a "ruling" that no man should have more than TEN wives. That, too, was a cultural convention as so many potent males had been killed in that long war.

Try historical study as well as current (ever changing) biblical views.

St. Thomas Aquinas once said, "Beware the man who reads only one book."
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,459,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
King David and Jonathan had a love that was said to be greater than that between a man and a woman. They did not engage in sex. Sex between two people not in a biblical marriage is the sin, not love.

Sex is not a necessity nor the most important expression of genuine love.

As to the question of being born a homosexual or not, is immaterial.Many is slowly degrading from what man was created like and the various issue man faces today as to genetic issues, is simply a part of that deterioration.Part of being a Christian is controlling our desires, to avoid doing that which is not what God wishes for us to do. We are told by Jesus that the most important love is that of God, Then love of neighbor. The word for love there is not sex and Greek had a separate word for that. Agape, the word used , is superior to Eros, and is a genuine love developed between God and man, and man and man, that is superior to the fleshly inclinations.
Scripture doesn't record that they had sex, but King Saul's reaction seems a bit strong to be against two good "friends."
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:16 PM
 
43,961 posts, read 25,530,264 times
Reputation: 22519
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Except monogamy was never God's design unless He changed His mind. When did He do that?

The question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it. The first instance of polygamy/bigamy in the Bible was that of Lamech in Genesis 4:19: “Lamech married two women.” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. In 2 Samuel 12:8, God, speaking through the prophet Nathan, said that if David’s wives and concubines were not enough, He would have given David even more. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status), according to 1 Kings 11:3. What are we to do with these instances of polygamy in the Old Testament?

God never condemned it once--nor is there one whit of evidence that it was an "old" covenant convention. Even in Timothy Paul does not write caution one man, one woman, but warns that LEADERS of the church should have but one wife, following God 's injunction (in Kings?) that a leader of the Israelites should not be one of MANY wives.

That fact alone debunks the idea that marriage is god-ordained as one man, one woman. That is a relatively recent cultural convention, nothing more. After the thirty years war, the Church issued a "ruling" that no man should have more than TEN wives. That, too, was a cultural convention as so many potent males had been killed in that long war.

Try historical study as well as current (ever changing) biblical views.

St. Thomas Aquinas once said, "Beware the man who reads only one book."
Yeah, I know...and God never said Eve was supposed to touch the fruit. How did that turn out? How did those who practiced polygamy turn out?

Not interested in a long discussion on gay marriage. The OP had an issue. I addressed in a matter of fact manner. I know you stand against God's principle on this and you are not interested in changing. I ain't changing either...so whatever....
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:30 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 15,727,426 times
Reputation: 9322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Scripture doesn't record that they had sex, but King Saul's reaction seems a bit strong to be against two good "friends."
Uh, read the account. His reaction had nothing to do with Jonathan. It was the issue of kingship.

Some people will distort anything to try to support a wrong position.
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:33 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 15,727,426 times
Reputation: 9322
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Yeah, I know...and God never said Eve was supposed to touch the fruit. How did that turn out? How did those who practiced polygamy turn out?

Not interested in a long discussion on gay marriage. The OP had an issue. I addressed in a matter of fact manner. I know you stand against God's principle on this and you are not interested in changing. I ain't changing either...so whatever....
Some people know God and what he wants and some look for excuses to avoid cooperating with it. A good example of knowing and obeying was Joseph when he refused to sleep with Potiphar's wife. the reason? he did not want to displease God and yet,no command against adultery exited from God. He knew what God intended from what little he had available. Today we have far more and so many can't see or don't want to see, the obvious. Joseph knew sex with someone he was not married to in God's sight was wrong in God's eyes.
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:59 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,090 posts, read 28,559,750 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
The attraction is not sin. The action is sin.

Everyone has a predisposition to at least one style of sinful behavior. All have a choice whether or not to act on sinful urges...and at some point, we have all sinned.

I don't believe God considers same sex unions as marriages. Marriage, by design, is one man and one woman. Anything else is not a marriage.
How can the attraction NOT be sin, but the "action" is?

So if two people from the LGBT community marry (SSM) and never have sex, then this marriage would be acceptable?
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Old 07-11-2015, 05:00 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,090 posts, read 28,559,750 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Uh, read the account. His reaction had nothing to do with Jonathan. It was the issue of kingship.

Some people will distort anything to try to support a wrong position.
And others will DENY context to prove discrimination and bigotry are endorsed by god-n-the-tiny-bo..
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