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Old 01-29-2008, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso NM
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Yes tongues is for today
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:37 PM
 
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I believe a good book to get is called They Speak With Other Tounges by John and Elizabeth Sherrill. John was with the Guidepost for years. This book outlines the history of the baptism of the holy spirit . John also gives his accounts. There is nothing offensive about the book, it is just a very good read which gives a person insight into the movement.

Here is a man who has a tremendous story about the Lord using a woman to speak to him . I tried to find a link with his testimony but could not find anywhere with it. That is like him, he never put's the attention on HIM..
Maybe if you contacted him, he would gladly send you a tape or maybe write out his story... it is so powerful.
Missions

The gift of tounges is just that a GIFT.
It is no better than any other gift.. Salvation is the ultimate one. 1st Corinthian basically tells you that the spiritual gifts are for today, all of them. They are God's presents to us..
1 Corinthians 12
The Use of Spiritual Gifts
1Now concerning (A)spiritual gifts, brethren, (B)I do not want you to be unaware.
2(C)You know that when you were pagans, you were (D)led astray to the (E)mute idols, however you were led.

3Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking (F)by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is (G)accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is (H)Lord," except (I)by the Holy Spirit.

4Now there are (J)varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.

6There are varieties of effects, but the same (K)God who works all things in all persons.

7But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit (L)for the common good.

8For to one is given the word of (M)wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of (N)knowledge according to the same Spirit;

9to another (O)faith by the same Spirit, and to another (P)gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

10and to another the effecting of (Q)miracles, and to another (R)prophecy, and to another the (S)distinguishing of spirits, to another various (T)kinds of tongues, and to another the (U)interpretation of tongues.

11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, (V)distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

12For even (W)as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, (X)so also is Christ.

13For (Y)by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether (Z)Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to (AA)drink of one Spirit.

14For (AB)the body is not one member, but many.

15If the foot says, "Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.

16And if the ear says, "Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.

17If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be?

18But now God has (AC)placed the members, each one of them, in the body, (AD)just as He desired.

19If they were all one member, where would the body be?

20But now (AE)there are many members, but one body.

21And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."

22On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary;

23and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable,

24whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked,

25so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.

26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

27Now you are (AF)Christ's body, and (AG)individually members of it.

28And God has (AH)appointed in (AI)the church, first (AJ)apostles, second (AK)prophets, third (AL)teachers, then (AM)miracles, then (AN)gifts of healings, helps, (AO)administrations, various (AP)kinds of tongues.

29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not (AQ)interpret, do they?

31But (AR)earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.

1 Corinthinas 13
This passage tells us that the gifts mean nothing if there is no love. To me personally, it is telling that people can proclaim these things and act like they have it but then be mean, does it really mean they have it? Are they doing God's work? Is it more emotion than annoiting?
Here is the passage
1 Corinthians 13 (New American Standard Bible)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation



1 Corinthians 13
The Excellence of Love
1If I speak with the (A)tongues of men and of (B)angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a (C)clanging cymbal.
2If I have the gift of (D)prophecy, and know all (E)mysteries and all (F)knowledge; and if I have (G)all faith, so as to (H)remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

3And if I (I)give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I (J)surrender my body [a]to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4Love (K)is patient, love is kind and (L)is not jealous; love does not brag and is not (M)arrogant,

5does not act unbecomingly; it (N)does not seek its own, is not provoked, (O)does not take into account a wrong suffered,

6(P)does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but (Q)rejoices with the truth;

7(R)bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8Love never fails; but if there are gifts of (S)prophecy, they will be done away; if there are (T)tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

9For we (U)know in part and we prophesy in part;

10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

11When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

12For now we (V)see in a mirror dimly, but then (W)face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also (X)have been fully known.

13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is (Y)love.
1 Corinthians 14
In this passage, Paul talks about how we should desire spiritual gifts and that prophecy is the superior to have... He also disguinishes between those that speak for themselves and not to the congregation and those that speak in tounges in church and having prophecy... Make it clear the bible states that people who speak to theirselves speaks a mystery to themselves but their spirit knows.. there is edification of the spirit... and those that speak outwardly with a prophecy is for the edification of the church body, for the unbeliever to see and understand that God is amongst us.

Here is the passage
1 Corinthians 14
Prophecy a Superior Gift
1(A)Pursue love, yet (B)desire earnestly (C)spiritual gifts, but especially that you may (D)prophesy.
2For one who (E)speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks (F)mysteries.

3But one who prophesies speaks to men for (G)edification and (H)exhortation and consolation.

4One who (I)speaks in a tongue (J)edifies himself; but one who (K)prophesies (L)edifies the church.

5Now I wish that you all (M)spoke in tongues, but (N)even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who (O)speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive (P)edifying.

6But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of (Q)revelation or of (R)knowledge or of (S)prophecy or of (T)teaching?

7Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp?

8For if (U)the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle?

9So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be (V)speaking into the air.

10There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning.

11If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a (W)barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.

12So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the (X)edification of the church.

13Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

15(Y)What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will (Z)sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

16Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say (AA)the "Amen" at your (AB)giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?

17For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not (AC)edified.

18I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;

19however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Instruction for the Church
20(AD)Brethren, (AE)do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil (AF)be infants, but in your thinking be mature.
21In (AG)the Law it is written, "(AH)BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord.

22So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but (AI)prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

23Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that (AJ)you are mad?

24But if all (AK)prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is (AL)convicted by all, he is called to account by all;

25(AM)the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will (AN)fall on his face and worship God, (AO)declaring that God is certainly among you.

26(AP)What is the outcome then, (AQ)brethren? When you assemble, (AR)each one has a (AS)psalm, has a (AT)teaching, has a (AU)revelation, has a (AV)tongue, has an (AW)interpretation Let (AX)all things be done for edification.

27If anyone speaks in a (AY)tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must (AZ)interpret;

28but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

29Let two or three (BA)prophets speak, and let the others (BB)pass judgment.

30But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent.

31For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted;

32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;

33for God is not a God of (BC)confusion but of peace, as in (BD)all the churches of the (BE)saints.

34The women are to (BF)keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but (BG)are to subject themselves, just as (BH)the Law also says.

35If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

36Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?

37(BI)If anyone thinks he is a prophet or (BJ)spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you (BK)are the Lord's commandment.

38But if anyone does not recognize this, he [a]is not recognized.

39Therefore, my brethren, (BL)desire earnestly to (BM)prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

40But (BN)all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.

In conclusion, some people believe that the spiritual gifts are not meant for today.. that was bible times. I though as a person who has salvation believe that when Jesus died on a cross, that it broke the curse of the old law's in the old testament and that we are living under the new testament, that salvation, healing, prophecy, tounges are meant for today. Paul reaches out and tells us how to use them and to have love because without a drop of love then they are not real... they mean nothing because they aren't of God.
There are some wonderful churches who have an outpouring of the holy spirit and they are mature because they practice the FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT.. You must test that . Galatians 5 :22 states 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulnes

For me, if a pastor of a church says that the gifts are unbiblical , there is a problem because they have committed a herasy... You must recognize that it is spoken of in the bible, if it is in the bible in black and white it is not UNBIBLICAL. We can't ignore it, there can be discussion and debate about it.... Now does a church NEED to speak in tounges?.. no Do they have to have outward signs of spiritual gifts to function as a great church.. NO...
For me, what is important to remember that there is this thing called maturity... I had a pastor tell me they recognized the gifts but they weren't ready to do that because they weren't mature as a congregation .
Some denominations are so focused on the outwards signs that they forget the rest of the picture... the gifts of tounges is just a tiny piece in the whole picture of who God is. We need to whole heartedly keep our eyes focused on Jesus and what he wills us to do... which is to be his hands and feet.. love one another... spread the word. If someone wishes for the gifts, that is a personal quest and Paul ask of us to desire them but it is NOT required.

Last edited by stargazer; 01-29-2008 at 04:57 PM.. Reason: bad english
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Old 01-30-2008, 02:04 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,214,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
I truly ask this out of sincerity and curiosity, but how does one out grow ones gift?

God Bless
Tongues are for newbies. You never lose it, you just no longer need it. If praying in tongues gives you goose bumps, then it is that that you are enjoying. Deeper anointing is beyond the goosebump stage, you just know w/o the need for physical/emotions.

Paul does recommend we give milk up and move onto solid food.

Blessings
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Old 01-30-2008, 02:11 AM
 
140 posts, read 290,540 times
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Default equal grace and alcohol celt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
I believe in a gift that allows the truth of God's word to be articulated.

I remember the 1st service I attended ( as a guest ), when in the middle of the pastors sermon, someone in the rear of this very small church started babbling. The pastor stopped until the babbling stopped, then proceeded with the sermon.
No explanation, no comments, nothing. As I understand it, Paul states that there is also the gift of interpreting "tongues", that must accompany the person speaking in tongues.
That, I have not as yet witnessed.
Do I believe the Apostle Paul when he referred to these gifts? Yes.
Do I know exactly what it means? No.
But I'd like to know. Not by explanation, but by experience.
why should I tell you?
God is love
There is a manipulative thread?
To see?
You cannot make me by telling me!
To be a prophet of the one?
God is love
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Old 01-30-2008, 02:12 AM
 
140 posts, read 290,540 times
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Default Threads of discourse

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstu View Post
why should I tell you?
God is love
There is a manipulative thread?
To see?
You cannot make me by telling me!
To be a prophet of the one?
God is love
I feel the threads closing
The one
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Indiana
1,250 posts, read 3,501,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Tongues are for newbies. You never lose it, you just no longer need it. If praying in tongues gives you goose bumps, then it is that that you are enjoying. Deeper anointing is beyond the goosebump stage, you just know w/o the need for physical/emotions.

Paul does recommend we give milk up and move onto solid food.

Blessings
You're right, Paul did say that....but I don't remember him ever saying that speaking in tongues was considered spiritual "milk". I know some men and women of God who are far beyond the "milk" stage in their walk with Christ, and they still speak in tongues. To me, it is something that a lot of newbies (as you call them) do not even comprehend. In my experience, it has been the believers who have moved on to the deeper things that have grasped the significance of this gift. That being said, I don't think that you have to accept this gift to be a Christian...but it is a perk.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:59 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,697,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dojilynn View Post
You're right, Paul did say that....but I don't remember him ever saying that speaking in tongues was considered spiritual "milk". I know some men and women of God who are far beyond the "milk" stage in their walk with Christ, and they still speak in tongues. To me, it is something that a lot of newbies (as you call them) do not even comprehend. In my experience, it has been the believers who have moved on to the deeper things that have grasped the significance of this gift. That being said, I don't think that you have to accept this gift to be a Christian...but it is a perk.
Could not have answered this any better then you just did!! Thank you for you kindness and deeper understanding!!!
God Bless you dojilynn!
couldn't rep you! catch you next time around!
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
Could not have answered this any better then you just did!! Thank you for you kindness and deeper understanding!!!
God Bless you dojilynn!
couldn't rep you! catch you next time around!
Repped her for you, because she's right! Tongues is not a kind of "spiritual food", either milk or meat. The Apostle Paul said he prayed that way "more than you all". That sure doesn't sound like something he outgrew and laid aside. The Bible calls it "praying in the Spirit". It is a way for your spirit, deep inside you, to pray to the Lord.

Ephesians 6:17-19
"17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints"



Bud
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:03 PM
 
1,067 posts, read 5,655,098 times
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Quote:
Repped her for you, because she's right! Tongues is not a kind of "spiritual food", either milk or meat. The Apostle Paul said he prayed that way "more than you all". That sure doesn't sound like something he outgrew and laid aside. The Bible calls it "praying in the Spirit". It is a way for your spirit, deep inside you, to pray to the Lord.
This is correct, Paul speaks of this is 1 Corinthians 14 when he says it is edification of the spirit. He also goes on to say that the mind is unfruitful but to pray with your mind too when you don't know what your spirit speaks...

I never THOUGHT that tounges is for NEWBIES. It is for the unbeliever to hear so that they might believe. Tounges comes from 2 places, from God speaking to Man or from your spirit man. Jim Hester's ( read my orginal post in this thread) experience of having had God use of a woman to speak perfect Tuscan to Jim in a prayer meeting. This lady had never been further than Corsicana but Jim spent 9 years on the mission field in Italy.. when God spoke to Jim, he said, " James my son" God uses anyone for his purpose and he will use newbies and oldies alike...
Paul said
Quote:
18I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all
Paul wasn't a newbie, but a man instructing people how to be.
Can someone point out where your getting that only newbies speak in tounges?
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:01 AM
 
Location: South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazer View Post
--snip--

Paul wasn't a newbie, but a man instructing people how to be.
Can someone point out where your getting that only newbies speak in tongues?
Hi Stargazer

1Co 13:8 Charity never fails. But if there are prophecies, they will be abolished; if tongues, they shall cease; if knowledge, it will be abolished.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.
1Co 13:11 When I was an infant, I spoke as an infant, I thought as an infant, I reasoned as an infant. But when I became a man, I did away with the things of an infant.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall fully know even as I also am fully known.
1Co 13:13 And now faith, hope, charity, these three remain; but the greatest of these is charity.
See the deeper things Paul discovered was Love. He does not deny the gifts, neither do I.

I am not one that says tongues was only known languages but on Pentecost, they were known foreign languages. The tongues for an unbeliever will be in a language he/she understands.

My experience has been, folk speak gibberish and learn it. A tongue, even private has a vocabulary even if you may not understand what you are saying.

I too have discovered the deeper meaning of Charity aka Love, when you have that, tongues pale by comparison, I now enter with boldness into the throne of Grace, and I do not have to get worked up in the Spirit to do it.

When you glory in the gifts, you stay an infant, time will come to focus on the Giver of the gifts, the Father. Signs and winders follow the believer and not the other way round.

I have been in services where there was no manifestation whatsoever of any gift, the pastor then said we were out of line and must repent, that leads to working the gifts and not letting them flow naturally.

Paul goes on to say:

1Co 14:12 Even so you, since you are zealots of spiritual things, seek to build up the church, in order that you may abound
1Co 14:13 So then he speaking in a language, let him pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the mind; I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the mind.
1Co 14:16 Else, if you bless in the spirit, he occupying the place of the unlearned, how will he say the amen at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you say?
1Co 14:17 For you truly give thanks well, but the other is not built up.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God that I speak more languages than all of you;
1Co 14:19 yet in a church I desire to speak five words with my mind, so that I might also teach others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
1Co 14:20 Brothers, do not be children in your minds, but in malice be like infants, and in your minds be mature.

I guess he too was correcting folk that had taught like today, unless you have tongues you do not have the Holy Spirit. Folk come under condemnation and thus learn a tongue, learn to fall; emulate but never experience the real deal.

I used to lead P&W so I have a fair perception as what I saw from the stage. Folk never entered in as they gloried in the goose-bump experience of the anointing. They just hung around the entrance to Glory. As a P&W team when we practiced, some sessions it happened and we entered in, when that happens you have the ability to play and stand for 3 or more hours. Somehow, we never got that right with the congregation. The god-in-a-box mentality prevented it happening.

Blessings
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