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Old 01-30-2008, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,860,830 times
Reputation: 1114

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
That wouldn't be a problem if they'd legalize gay marriage, would it?
So man's laws are above God's laws?

freedom

 
Old 01-30-2008, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,860,830 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges View Post
I disagree there. I think there are many truths, but I also think we have know way of knowing one way or the other.

I don't see how it will be, and besides, this is not a country where dissenting views are silenced (not typically, anyway...).
Do you think that children in public school should be taught that gay sex is acceptable, when the parents say it goes against their belief?

Do you think sex should be the business of any gov't school? I think it should be the parents responsibility of when and where they teach about sex.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 01-30-2008, 09:08 AM
 
4,050 posts, read 6,139,336 times
Reputation: 1574
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Do you think that children in public school should be taught that gay sex is acceptable, when the parents say it goes against their belief?

Do you think sex should be the business of any gov't school? I think it should be the parents responsibility of when and where they teach about sex.

godspeed,

freedom
I think that safe sex practices should be discussed in school, as well as the consequences of unsafe sex. I was given a lesson in these issues in the tenth grade; some say that is too late. I don't know the answer to that.

In school, people are directly or indirectly taught many things that go against their religious beliefs as well as other belief systems. That's life.
 
Old 01-30-2008, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,860,830 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges View Post
I think that safe sex practices should be discussed in school, as well as the consequences of unsafe sex. I was given a lesson in these issues in the tenth grade; some say that is too late. I don't know the answer to that.

In school, people are directly or indirectly taught many things that go against their religious beliefs as well as other belief systems. That's life.
They are teaching these things to pre-school & elementary school children, that is disgusting.
That is indoctrination and an injustice to the freedom of families that don't believe in gay life choices as being normal or lawful (spiritually). Where is the concern for that offense?

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 01-30-2008, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,625,061 times
Reputation: 20165
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Do you think that children in public school should be taught that gay sex is acceptable, when the parents say it goes against their belief?

Do you think sex should be the business of any gov't school? I think it should be the parents responsibility of when and where they teach about sex.

godspeed,

freedom



So if parents believe that Black people are inferior, that Jewish people smell , that women are evil or that the Easter bunny told them that children come from chocolate eggs we should not teach kids otherwise ? We should just teach kids what their parents believe ? Wow, now that is a new definition of education for me.

Gay sex exists whether people want to accept it or not. Sexual education is not an endorsement of sexual behaviour. That is not what it does. It just gives facts in a detached and logical manner. It presents children with informed facts and lets them ask questions and challenge.
It encourages curiosity and intellectual discourse.

So yes I do believe children have the rights to know that not everyone is heterosexual and that sex and love comes in various packages. That is called the truth. Some thing you tell us you are so fond of.

Why should anyone object to the truth being told their children. Why do we "mollycuddle" kids and are so unable to accept that they can make their own minds up about what they see and hear ? Respecting your child is respecting that they can think for themselves.

As long as the knowledge and facts presented are not done in an offensive, vulgar or biased manner, what is the big deal ?

They deserve to know that life is not as simple as some parents believe. Nor as uniform.

Different levels of graphic details for different ages. I am not advocating showing sexually graphic movies to small children. But gradually they must be introduced to some sexual diversity.

Anything else is just intellectual dishonest as well as futile.

When a teenager starts to wonder why he/she is attracted to the same sex and all he/she has been taught is that "normal" people can only be heteros because their parents were fundies, this can only be dangerous.

Education is supposed to educate, not pick and chose what the "truth" is. The Truth is that some people are Gay/Bisexuals, Transexuals. Fact. The truth. So let's teach our children in a sensitively handled way facts. Not pick bits we like or don't like.

That is not what school is about. Any responsible parent , no matter what their belief should have the honesty to face and address difficult and contentious issues head-on like a grown-up so kids are not confused when they find out (As they will) that they have been lied to and manipulated.

Plus as a bonus it might mean less bigotry and bit more tolerance and acceptance.

If lying to children is so important I would have thought a strictly private religious school would be better for that purpose. When only one point of view is shared and expressed.


Parents should be the ones who originally teach thier kids about sex and sexuality but sadly most do not.
Too many teen pregnancies and abortions come out kids who have been denied access to sex-ed. The countries with the lowest teen-pregnancies are the ones with the best and most open sex-ed. And the most secular too, strangely.

Kids have the right to know how life is created, to be taught about love and intimacy as well as sex itself. And it is one of our duties to ensure that a subject most of us find embarrassing to discuss with children is taught in an intelligent , honest and open sort of way.

Schools are an essential tool to kids with a better awareness.
 
Old 01-30-2008, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,860,830 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
So if parents believe that Black people are inferior, that Jewish people smell , that women are evil or that the Easter bunny told them that children come from chocolate eggs we should not teach kids otherwise ? We should just teach kids what their parents believe ? Wow, now that is a new definition of education for me.
silly comparison.

Quote:
Gay sex exists whether people want to accept it or not. Sexual education is not an endorsement of sexual behaviour. That is not what it does. It just gives facts in a detached and logical manner. It presents children with informed facts and lets them ask questions and challenge.
It encourages curiosity and intellectual discourse.
Not true.
Quote:
So yes I do believe children have the rights to know that not everyone is heterosexual and that sex and love comes in various packages. That is called the truth. Some thing you tell us you are so fond of
.
Parents are the ones that have the right to explain it when or if they wish to explain it. Love is not sex.
You are getting testy...

Quote:
Why should anyone object to the truth being told their children. Why do we "mollycuddle" kids and are so unable to accept that they can make their own minds up about what they see and hear ? Respecting your child is respecting that they can think for themselves.
Parents have been given that responsibility.
It is not the business of the state.

Quote:
As long as the knowledge and facts presented are not done in an offensive, vulgar or biased manner, what is the big deal ?
The whole subject of gay sex is vulgar and offensive, not something children or anyone should ever have to concern themselves with.

Quote:
They deserve to know that life is not as simple as some parents believe. Nor as uniform.
And the state is the one to tell them?

Quote:
Different levels of graphic details for different ages. I am not advocating showing sexually graphic movies to small children. But gradually they must be introduced to some sexual diversity.
No whitewash the whole subject, so it desensitizes them.

Quote:
Anything else is just intellectual dishonest as well as futile.
What is dishonest is teaching it as normal behavior.

Quote:
When a teenager starts to wonder why he/she is attracted to the same sex and all he/she has been taught is that "normal" people can only be heteros because their parents were fundies, this can only be dangerous.
And gay sex is safe....that's a hoot...

Quote:
Education is supposed to educate, not pick and chose what the "truth" is. The Truth is that some people are Gay/Bisexuals, Transexuals. Fact. The truth. So let's teach our children in a sensitively handled way facts. Not pick bits we like or don't like.
You don't get it, most people think it is a sin, and something to be overcome and avoided at all costs.

Quote:
That is not what school is about. Any responsible parent , no matter what their belief should have the honesty to face and address difficult and contentious issues head-on like a grown-up so kids are not confused when they find out (As they will) that they have been lied to and manipulated.
yes it is the parents responsibility...


Quote:
Plus as a bonus it might mean less bigotry and bit more tolerance and acceptance.
Not agreeing with the lifestyle is not bigotry. It is belief.

Quote:
If lying to children is so important I would have thought a strictly private religious school would be better for that purpose. When only one point of view is shared and expressed.
Not only religious people disagree with teaching children about sex education, or gay acceptance as normal.


Quote:
Parents should be the ones who originally teach thier kids about sex and sexuality but sadly most do not.
Too many teen pregnancies and abortions come out kids who have been denied access to sex-ed. The countries with the lowest teen-pregnancies are the ones with the best and most open sex-ed. And the most secular too, strangely.
Doesn't make it right, to take the responsibility away from the parents, because the few are not fit.

Quote:
Kids have the right to know how life is created, to be taught about love and intimacy as well as sex itself. And it is one of our duties to ensure that a subject most of us find embarrassing to discuss with children is taught in an intelligent , honest and open sort of way.
Not in public school, with state mandated perceptions. It is the parents right and duty to teach the social and spiritual aspects of life.

Quote:
Schools are an essential tool to kids with a better awareness.
what is a better awareness, that sin is good, that dangerous sex practices should be acceptable. It is not their place to indoctrinate against the beliefs of the parents.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 01-30-2008, 10:15 AM
 
16,087 posts, read 41,155,936 times
Reputation: 6376
Great post, Moose - reps! Why are parents so insecure that their kids will become gay if they hear "Heather has two mommies"?
 
Old 01-30-2008, 10:16 AM
 
4,440 posts, read 9,069,031 times
Reputation: 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Not agreeing with the lifestyle is not bigotry. It is belief.
Ok.. its a belief.. a bigoted belief. Call it what you like... its still bigotry.
 
Old 01-30-2008, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,860,830 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Ok.. its a belief.. a bigoted belief. Call it what you like... its still bigotry.
You can judge all you wish, that is freedom. I hope for your sake its correct.
Is God a bigot in your opinion?
 
Old 01-30-2008, 10:29 AM
 
4,440 posts, read 9,069,031 times
Reputation: 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
You can judge all you wish, that is freedom. I hope for your sake its correct.
Is God a bigot in your opinion?
Its not judging. I'm using the definition of the term. If you don't like the definition then I can't help you.

Is God a bigot? Well since your perception of God is one who condemns what you call a "lifestyle" then.. yes.. your God is a bigot by the very definition of the word.

My perception of God is different than yours. I don't believe that homosexuality is a "lifestyle". I believe it to be biological and thus I don't believe (in my perception) that God would condemn something he/she/it created. Thus.. (i don't believe) my god is bigoted.
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