Why does homosexuality anger conservative Christians more than other sins? (Sodom, punishment)
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Moderator cut: Politics and unwarranted personal remarks
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
We all love ourselves because it is part of our sin nature. We are called to die to self.
A person who seeks to murder others would most likely have demonic spirits. You can't be a Bible believing Christian and have murder and hate in your heart. So now, they are not on my "side".
What's next, playing "you're a Pharisee" or "you're a homosexual" card again?
We know you love yourself as you insist on your “rights” as a “christian,” contrary to what Jesus and Paul taught about putting others first.
And sure you can have murder in your heart as a “Bible-believer.” Here is an example of a mass murdering Bible-believer:
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Tetelestai Church in Pittsburgh, PA - "Be Ye Holy, even as I have been Ye holy! Thus saith the lord thy God!", as pastor Rick Knapp would proclaim. Holy ----, religion is a waste. But this guy teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him. Call him at [phone number]
Jack Rickard, a deacon at the Plum church Sodini attended for years, said the Bible makes it clear that "professing a faith in Jesus as savior means you will have complete eternal salvation."
Rickard, 80, of Indiana, Pa., said Tetelestai members "are firm believers in 'once-saved, always-saved.'"
He said the church, which is in process of moving to New Kensington, focuses on the intense study of Scripture.
Rickard conveyed his belief that Sodini attained eternal life.
"George is going to heaven, but he's not going to get his rewards," Rickard said. He said that Sodini won't be offered all of heaven's benefits because of his sin.
Believing that something is sinful is not hateful. Show me one example where I spoke of anything in the manner of hate.
We aren’t being hateful when we state your bible views are sinful. We are just like you—-pure of heart!
How about God allowing marriage between brother and sister in Abram and Sara? How about OT men of God visiting prostitutes and treating women as property? How about multiple wives for many of them? How about Jacob marrying two sisters in violation of Levitical law? Why would Paul find it necessary to write that those desiring to to be a church leader should be the husband of only one wife when, if it is a “spiritual” morality issue he could have stated no Christian should have more than one wife?
Are all these biblical accounts sinful?
Is it any wonder you cannot affect any thinking person when your views are not matched by the biblical record. And your ability to fictionalize Scripture to fit your own prejudices is unparalleled on CD. Worse, you don’t recognize yourself as a fraud.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 11-02-2018 at 08:54 PM..
The Bible is the “breath of God” and tells us of His love for us, expressed on the cross.
But you aren't empathetic, jimmie. I agree it is INSPIRED, but never ever does it hint at being INFALLIBLE. And since that nonsense began early in the 20th century, Christianity has taken a nose dive. It continues to do so as it ignores science, sociology, psychology, and archaeology. It is being ignored because of foolish beliefs about the Bible.
What's more, St. Augustine predicted it would happen:
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Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]
Saint Augustine (A.D. 354-430) in his work The Literal Meaning of Genesis (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim) provided excellent advice for all Christians who are faced with the task of interpreting Scripture in the light of scientific knowledge. This translation is by J. H. Taylor in Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41.
So why do you insist on holding an opinion that DRIVES people AWAY from Christ???? Here is a "saint" who stated what would happen and it IS happening. God must have inspired Augustine to provide a prophecy about how far from real trust in Jesus fundamentalists would drift for they surely didn't think like fundamentalists 1700 years ago.
St. Augustine calls you a reckless and incompetent expounder of Holy Scripture!!!
Jeff, when the original authors penned the Bible, how many of them would have known what a homosexual - or a heterosexual for that matter - was? I'm just guessing but I would have to say ...zero. This is why all scriptural references to same gender sex practices MUST be interpreted within the context that they were written, i.e. sexual rituals and worship practices affiliated with pagan idols.
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Genesis 19:1-7 - Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 And he said, "Now behold, my lords, please turn aside into your servant's house, and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way." They said however, "No, but we shall spend the night in the square." 3 Yet he urged them strongly, so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he prepared a feast for them, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. 4 Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; 5 and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." 6 But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, 7 and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.
I can't believe that the above story is still being used to condemn homosexual people by those who would normally claim intelligence.
(a) it's a story, i.e. it never happened.
(b) let us assume that it did happen.
(c) we're told that ALL the people of Sodom (young and old) came pounding on Lot's door. If the men of Sodom had produced 'the young' spoken of with the females of the city then they were hardly homosexuals.
(d) these heterosexual men were evidently there not to have intimate relations with the angels but to have aggressive sex, i.e. rape, in order to intimidate them. Apparently, strangers were not welcome in Sodom, i.e. these folks were most inhospitable (Ezekiel 16:49; Matthew 10:14-15).
(e) Terrifying one's victims with the threat of rape IS NOT a characteristic of the homosexual.
(f) Mighty Queen has several times given us the reason behind the story of Sodom, Lot and his horny daughters, and it has nothing to do with homosexuality.
(g) Using the Sodom story to cast aspersions on homosexuals - to shame them for being who they are - would have to be the meanest, darkest ploy ever devised by so-called 'Christianity'!!
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC
[b]Leviticus 18:22 - 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Simply quoting scripture doesn't cut it for me. So, would you care to explain what the above text is referring to? WHO was the male who was lying with another male rather than with a female? Why would this be prohibited? I believe that it's referring to temple prostitution where males performed sexual rituals with male prostitutes. One's sexual persuasion was irrelevant. It was all to do with idol worship which was, for the Levi Tribe, taboo. Leviticus 18:21 (referring to Molech and the sacrifice of children) sets up the theme for the following 'man lying with man' text. How do you respond to this, DRob?
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC
[b]Leviticus 20:13 - 'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act;
Why did you omit the rest of that text which calls for the death of those who commit such a thing, DRob? It doesn't look too good, does it? Anyway, I stand by my previous comments referring to idolatry and temple prostitution which were 'detestable' to the Levi God who commanded worship for he and he alone. God even refers to himself as 'a jealous God' so woe betide anyone who forgets that and worships another!
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC
[b]The term may not have been defined, but the acts were done.
Men were the dominant ones of the human species and women were perhaps just a tad higher than the man's cattle. Besides the idolatry explanation for all biblical references to same-gender sex practices it would have been seen as most improper for a male to be seen as taking on a lowly female role. People really DO need to get their thoughts in order when discussing issues pertaining to these ancient and superstitious cultures. Medical science has only recently determined that homosexuality is a part of natural human variation. Do you honestly believe that the ancient people from whom you take your instruction would have known this?
Genesis 19:1-7 - Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 And he said, "Now behold, my lords, please turn aside into your servant's house, and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way." They said however, "No, but we shall spend the night in the square." 3 Yet he urged them strongly, so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he prepared a feast for them, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. 4 Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; 5 and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." 6 But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, 7 and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.
Leviticus 18:22 - 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - 'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act;
The term may not have been defined, but the acts were done.
Know your Bible better. God had ALREADY decided to destroy Sodom PRIOR to what you perceive to be homosexual acts by the entire male population of Sodom. Abraham tried to bargain with God to keep Him from His decision. No homosexual rape had occurred.
Second, the OT is best read for inspiration and motivation but not application. Application cues come from Jesus with His new covenant command "Love others as yourself."
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By this shall everyone know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 13:35
Would to God you would take what Jesus said more seriously than what the OT says.
Know your Bible better. God had ALREADY decided to destroy Sodom PRIOR to what you perceive to be homosexual acts by the entire male population of Sodom. Abraham tried to bargain with God to keep Him from His decision. No homosexual rape had occurred.
Second, the OT is best read for inspiration and motivation but not application. Application cues come from Jesus with His new covenant command "Love others as yourself."
John 13:35
Would to God you would take what Jesus said more seriously than what the OT says.
The Bible is the “breath of God” and tells us of His love for us, expressed on the cross.
At least you are beginning to get the love part of it within having to big up the sin part. It's a start.
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