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Entitled to forget? Maaaaaaaaaaayyyyyybeeeeee, if you blame it on age and not the desire to avoid a conscience.
Yeah, and 41 years ago it was 1978, not the 80s, but we'll let that go. Apparently she's about the same age as I am, so I'm not falling for the "I forgot" trick.
I don't think truthful/not truthful really comes into play one way or another here. It's all about trying to see how much one can push the "disgusting" envelope to get attention. That's all it is, a bid for attention. Not the only poster who does that, either. You'd be surprised at what we delete before too many of you get to see it.
Um, n..Xuipa ...settle down. You're merely ranting and that's not a good look. Tell me, calmly if at all possible, WHY you are so hung up on this topic and have taken it to become so personal to you? It IS personal to me and I've explained why it is in previous posts. Tell me/us where you are coming from.
If it is personal to you then how can you look at the topic objectively? You will auto reject any evidence that even remotely casts a shadow of doubt on your beliefs because it's personal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
You keep offering up scriptures that have nothing at all to do with the topic. But I suspect there is more to your being so uptight about the subject that, I believe, has nothing to do with the Bible. So, please stop it with the sermon material which, I think, just goes over the heads of most people on this thread.
I realize that you've already given some kind of explanation which I found hard to follow, but ...what is your personal issue with gay people and why can't you simply allow them to live their own life? No one is suggesting that you become gay ...presuming, of course, that you are not already gay.
Yes, I know ...I think I'm going to be sorry that I asked.
Who said we are trying to prevent them from living their lives? They have that freedom now. But they shouldn't have the right to take away religious freedoms from other people. That's where I draw the line.
If it is personal to you then how can you look at the topic objectively? You will auto-reject any evidence that even remotely casts a shadow of doubt on your beliefs because it's personal.
Tell me, Jeff, what kind of evidence would you need to accept that you are an abomination in God's eyes?
Um, n..Xuipa ...settle down. You're merely ranting and that's not a good look. Tell me, calmly if at all possible, WHY you are so hung up on this topic and have taken it to become so personal to you? It IS personal to me and I've explained why it is in previous posts. Tell me/us where you are coming from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
If it is personal to you then how can you look at the topic objectively? You will auto reject any evidence that even remotely casts a shadow of doubt on your beliefs because it's personal.
Without my covering the same ground again in its entirety, it was because I had a good friend who was struggling (and how!) with attempts to reconcile his (homo)sexuality with his Christian faith that led to us both studying the Bible texts that are commonly used by mainstream Christianity to condemn homosexuality. As far as we were both concerned, the Bible DID indeed condemn homosexuality. This had always been preached from the pulpit so it must be true. However, we felt the need to dig deeper and find out 'what, why and who' these particular verses were addressing rather than merely lifting one lone verse (for instance Romans 1:26-27) as the majority of Christians tend to do do because that's all they need to make gay people squirm.
Just prior to the above, a Bible study group from church that I was a part of chose to discuss the Sodom and Gomorrah story one evening as its study topic. We had all been pre-programmed to believe that the City of Sodom had been destroyed because of rampant homosexuality. Imagine our surprise, then, when we found no mention of homosexuality at all ...not even a HINT! Even the infamous 'men and the angels' part of the story didn't suggest homosexuality but rather the 'rapist welcome wagon' being rolled out to humiliate and discourage visitors from entering their city. SO why, we asked among ourselves, did even our SDA Church (which is supposed to know everything about the Bible ) still persist in preaching a lie?
Anyway, back to the study of the 'clobber texts' of the Bible by my friend and I ...we found that all of these texts (ALL? There are only about a half dozen, if that, in the entire Bible!) did not address homosexuality as WE today define the term but were rather referencing religious sexual rituals as performed with temple prostitutes in pagan temples. MOREOVER, "I" (and only in recent months) received a divine revelation () in the form of a logical assumption that the ancient authors of the Bible COULD NOT have known anything about human sexuality PERIOD ...let alone homosexuality!
So, there you have it, Jeff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
You keep offering up scriptures that have nothing at all to do with the topic. But I suspect there is more to your being so uptight about the subject that, I believe, has nothing to do with the Bible. So, please stop it with the sermon material which, I think, just goes over the heads of most people on this thread.
I realize that you've already given some kind of explanation which I found hard to follow, but ...what is your personal issue with gay people and why can't you simply allow them to live their own life? No one is suggesting that you become gay ...presuming, of course, that you are not already gay.
Yes, I know ...I think I'm going to be sorry that I asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Who said we are trying to prevent them from living their lives? They have that freedom now. But they shouldn't have the right to take away religious freedoms from other people. That's where I draw the line.
As long as your religious freedom doesn't involve your casting aspersions on gay people, then have at it. Also, study your Bible, particularly the so-called 'clobber texts', so that you're better educated on what you preach or hear from the pulpit.
* aspersion:- an attack on the reputation or integrity of a person.
Who said we are trying to prevent them from living their lives? They have that freedom now. But they shouldn't have the right to take away religious freedoms from other people. That's where I draw the line.
They have that freedom now? Is that what is upsetting you?
Along with your religious "right" to discriminate against others.
Now, where did Jesus draw the line in the sand?
Wasn't it where he said, neither do I condemn you.
A sinner condemning another they believe is a sinner - isn't that special.
Oh, then you've had a change of heart and will allow a homosexual to stand in the pulpit of your church--unless, of course, you demonize them.
Quote the post of mine where I demonized them, and we'll take peek.
Quote:
Yes, fundamentalists are threatening, and that's where they are the ONLY GROUP of people Jesus spoke to harshly--because He knew there was no chance for them outside His tough love. I'm just passing it on to you.
Yes, that is what you do. You demonize people by associating them to nazis, pharisees, or whatever negative comes to your mind. That's that the nazis did, so I stand by what I said earlier. It's hypocritical.
If it is personal to you then how can you look at the topic objectively? You will auto reject any evidence that even remotely casts a shadow of doubt on your beliefs because it's personal.
Who said we are trying to prevent them from living their lives? They have that freedom now. But they shouldn't have the right to take away religious freedoms from other people. That's where I draw the line.
Exactly what "religious freedoms" are being taken away by gays?
The freedom to disparage, mock, objectify your god-thing's "abominations?"
Exactly what "religious freedoms" are being taken away by gays?
The freedom to disparage, mock, objectify your god-thing's "abominations?"
ABOUT THOSE WHO MOURN AND CRY IN THEIR SEEKING HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS , NOT MANS..VERSION OF MAKING EACH OTHER "HAPPY"/ GAY EVEN IN THEIR SINS..
AND WHO CAN ARGUE WITH THE BEATITUDES ? CERTAINLY NO ONE HERE..
Mat 5:1
¶
And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.
Mat 5:2
Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
Mat 5:3
“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.( WOULDNT' THIS MEAN ANY WHO STRUGGLE WITH THEIR SEXUALITY EVEN?)
Mat 5:4
Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted. (WOULDNT THIS INCLUDE ANYONE BONDED TO WRONG EXPERIENCES,, BECAUSE THEY WERE WAITING FOR HIS DELIVERANCE of their flesh in faith that they will set free ?)
Mat 5:5
Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.( THIS IS A TERM USED FOR PERFECTLY TRAINED WAR HORSES NOT MOUSY MEN, THUS THE MEEK are POWER UNDER THE RIDERS CONTROL))
Mat 5:6
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled. (WOULD THIS NOT INCLUDE THOSE STRUGGLING WITH THEIR OWN SINS AND THOSE SION OF OTHERS?)
Mat 5:7
blessed are the merciful for they are receive mercy ( mercy as Jesus loved?.. to carry their burden until they are free?) this one is interesting so if we want mercy we must give it .. it is statement meaning and proving that we to not condone sin but carry it for others like Paul states he carry their sins in his body..?)
Mat 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God. (so if you can't see God does that mean you are not pure of heart?)
Mat 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God. ( those who mourn and carry war of men in their bones and in their tears..?)
Mat 5:10
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake( note it does say for their unrepentant "sins" sake),
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. heaven is for those who mourned for righteousness be revealed in themselves and others too, because that is really God's love....
Salvation is for those lived in Yom Kippur, who lived in the ten days of AWE, in the feasts of Tabernacles and that is salvation.. yom kippur is part of Tabernacles for a reason .. the covering that will cover his people and is His Salvation and our protection in the times of trouble.. and war..). those who were saved Their life was like that of a lamb .. during the temple..... carrying the sins of the world in their bodies .. one day they will be restored to mourn no more. to have to carry no one else sins or to struggle with their own sin is still a fight with sin and helps others) ..
because each man in that time will carry his own sins with no one to help him . Those who loved , will be protected.
Mat 5:11
“Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. this one is self explanatory
Mat 5:12
“Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
.
HERE IS THE OLD TESTAMENT VERSIONS OF THESE SAME CONCEPTS JESUS IS SAYING IN THE BEATITUDES....
Isa 61:3
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified
did anyone notice that those who carry the weight of the world are the ones who are set free, in the end, to become "saved "..
this is the only truth as stated both old and new testament.
because it is the same God
SO IF WE RUN AROUND MAKING THE WORLD HAPPY AND GAY in their sins and filth and debauchery .. .. AND HAVING ALL SORT OF "FUN" IN bondage to THEIR SINS and we let them justify their actions ... UNCHANGED AND UNREPENTANT FOR THEIR OWN DEEDS.. MUCH LESS THEY will
not be CARRYing anyone else sins ,. thus do not love as Jesus proved his love.... They will not carry OTHERS SINS too as Jesus is our example of perfect love.. not human love .. / THUS REALLY LOVE OTHERS LIKE JESUS DID ...
AREN'T WE JUST instead just CONDEMNING THEM TO ( SOMETHING OTHER THAN HIS BLESSINGS FOREVER ?) because it is so clear both and new testament.
that those who live in yom Kippur are those who are saved and never have to carry another burden in his kingdom.
ABOUT THOSE WHO MOURN AND CRY IN THEIR SEEKING HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS , NOT MANS..VERSION OF MAKING EACH OTHER "HAPPY"/ GAY EVEN IN THEIR SINS..
AND WHO CAN ARGUE WITH THE BEATITUDES ? CERTAINLY NO ONE HERE..
Mat 5:1
¶
And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.
Mat 5:2
Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
Mat 5:3
“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.( WOULDNT' THIS MEAN ANY WHO STRUGGLE WITH THEIR SEXUALITY EVEN?)
Mat 5:4
Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted. (WOULDNT THIS INCLUDE ANYONE BONDED TO WRONG EXPERIENCES,, BECAUSE THEY WERE WAITING FOR HIS DELIVERANCE of their flesh in faith that they will set free ?)
Mat 5:5
Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.( THIS IS A TERM USED FOR PERFECTLY TRAINED WAR HORSES NOT MOUSY MEN, THUS THE MEEK are POWER UNDER THE RIDERS CONTROL))
Mat 5:6
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled. (WOULD THIS NOT INCLUDE THOSE STRUGGLING WITH THEIR OWN SINS AND THOSE SION OF OTHERS?)
Mat 5:7
blessed are the merciful for they are receive mercy ( mercy as Jesus loved?.. to carry their burden until they are free?) this one is interesting so if we want mercy we must give it .. it is statement meaning and proving that we to not condone sin but carry it for others like Paul states he carry their sins in his body..?)
Mat 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God. (so if you can't see God does that mean you are not pure of heart?)
Mat 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God. ( those who mourn and carry war of men in their bones and in their tears..?)
Mat 5:10
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake( note it does say for their unrepentant "sins" sake),
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. heaven is for those who mourned for righteousness be revealed in themselves and others too, because that is really God's love....
Salvation is for those lived in Yom Kippur, who lived in the ten days of AWE, in the feasts of Tabernacles and that is salvation.. yom kippur is part of Tabernacles for a reason .. the covering that will cover his people and is His Salvation and our protection in the times of trouble.. and war..). those who were saved Their life was like that of a lamb .. during the temple..... carrying the sins of the world in their bodies .. one day they will be restored to mourn no more. to have to carry no one else sins or to struggle with their own sin is still a fight with sin and helps others) ..
because each man in that time will carry his own sins with no one to help him . Those who loved , will be protected.
Mat 5:11
“Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. this one is self explanatory
Mat 5:12
“Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
.
HERE IS THE OLD TESTAMENT VERSIONS OF THESE SAME CONCEPTS JESUS IS SAYING IN THE BEATITUDES....
Isa 61:3
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified
did anyone notice that those who carry the weight of the world are the ones who are set free, in the end, to become "saved "..
this is the only truth as stated both old and new testament.
because it is the same God
SO IF WE RUN AROUND MAKING THE WORLD HAPPY AND GAY in their sins and filth and debauchery .. .. AND HAVING ALL SORT OF "FUN" IN bondage to THEIR SINS and we let them justify their actions ... UNCHANGED AND UNREPENTANT FOR THEIR OWN DEEDS.. MUCH LESS THEY will
not be CARRYing anyone else sins ,. thus do not love as Jesus proved his love.... They will not carry OTHERS SINS too as Jesus is our example of perfect love.. not human love .. / THUS REALLY LOVE OTHERS LIKE JESUS DID ...
AREN'T WE JUST instead just CONDEMNING THEM TO ( SOMETHING OTHER THAN HIS BLESSINGS FOREVER ?) because it is so clear both and new testament.
that those who live in yom Kippur are those who are saved and never have to carry another burden in his kingdom.
It seems to me that you are always arguing against the beautitudes with your condemnation of homosexuality. You are perfectly within your rights to have an opinion about homosexuality, no one not even God is preventing you from that, but how about having an opinion that doesn't condemn homosexuals. No one who says they are familiar with the scriptures can show Jesus coming down strong on any one other than those who came down strong on their neighbor. There is a good reason why he did too.
Tell me, Jeff, what kind of evidence would you need to accept that you are an abomination in God's eyes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
Exactly what "religious freedoms" are being taken away by gays?
The freedom to disparage, mock, objectify your god-thing's "abominations?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
No one who says they are familiar with the scriptures can show Jesus coming down strong on anyone other than those who came down strong on their neighbor.There is a good reason why he did too.
Search your heart, Jeff, for why you feel it is necessary to come down strong on anyone for any reason if God is the ultimate judge.
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) still persist in preaching a lie?
) in the form of a logical assumption that the ancient authors of the Bible COULD NOT have known anything about human sexuality PERIOD ...let alone homosexuality!
