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[quote="jeffbase40"]< snip > Jeff's response to someone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Second, the VAST I repeat VAST majority of Christian denominations DO NOT support homosexuality so let's stop with the pretense that we are some small minority here. Just look at the chart here. Besides a few small European churches, every other group has some level of red on the chart which indicates no support for homosexuality.
Jeff, the support or the non-support of something should be arrived at by facts that are available and made known to people belonging to these Christian denominations. The majority of Christians DO NOT get 'the facts' preached to them from the pulpit. On the contrary, it's all too often a case of the ignorant preaching to the ignorant.
Until our eyes are opened, Jeff, most of us are potentially dumb and will fall for anything that sounds 'official'. Politicians depend on a dumb public, as do advertisers, as do the popular media. A dumb public are their bread and butter. The same is true with 'the Church' in general. The majority of church leaders don't really want their members to actually 'think'. My goodness, if 'thinking' was actually encouraged, the pews would empty so fast it would make one's head spin. So, keep them dumb ...and also keep them afraid of 'God' and of 'Satan'. There is nothing quite like 'fear' to instill discipline.
If the FACTS were preached from the pulpit that the Bible IS NOT condemning of homosexuality after all (and the reasons given for having arrived at this fact) then the results regarding support for homosexuality might change dramatically. I say 'might' because I realize that some, even many, such as yourself, Jeff, would put their fingers in their ears and yell 'la la la' because they don't want to hear anything that might upset their cherished apple cart. Having 'something' to be against, or even to hate, is driven by a strong motive ...the inner satisfaction 'the hater' derives from believing they're enveloped within a safe haven of piety and therefore have 'authority' to point the finger at others. There is quite a bit of psychology involved here. Others here on this thread see this in you, Jeff, in Finn, et al. You folks exist in a self-righteous bubble and you in no way want that bubble to be burst by others of us who oppose your particular take on this subject. The facts are that you NEED to hate 'something', Jeff, and, fortunately for you, homosexuality came into the picture a few decades ago giving you that opportunity. If it wasn't 'homosexuality' it would be 'something else'. You have this inner NEED to hate for the psychological reason/s given, Jeff, and you feel that you can legitimately do this under the guise of 'Christianity'. Sorry to say, you rather come across as being no friend of Jesus, Jeff.
Anyway, poll results that are slanted from the start or/and arrived at through ignorance of 'the subject matter' are worse than useless.
Thankfully only a small minority of Americans (about 7%) dislike the church, so even most atheists are cool with Christians. The people here who routinely rave against Christians are a part of that small minority. It is too bad they have taken over this forum.
Really? Most atheists are far smarter than people holding religious beliefs. They will see "liberal" believers as less of a threat than the evangelical cult, but mostly because they don't feel like we are trying to shove God down their throats, and because our political leanings are more in line with freedom and equality for all rather than "Make America White Again."
But never doubt for a moment how they feel. One of my favorite atheist novelists, Phillip Roth, once said in an interview "When the whole world doesn’t believe in God, it’ll be a great place.”
And the president of American Atheists, David Silverman, writes on his blog that “Religion is my b-i-t-c-h.”
Here in Colorado Professor Victor Stenger (physics/philosophy, deceased 2014) voiced what many if not most atheists think about religion. He said “Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.”
So go ahead and perceive atheists to be your friend "christian." At least one straight and one gay atheists are on this very thread ---arguing against your "stand" on homosexuality. Because both in their own way know that if you get your way equality is out the door. If you get your way, more homosexual suicides will take place. If you get your way they will be denied goods and services and will have a giant finger pointing jesus on every street corner telling them to repent.
But you go ahead and be their b***h. It fits in with all the other nonsense you post.
Thankfully only a small minority of Americans (about 7%) dislike the church, so even most atheists are cool with Christians. The people here who routinely rave against Christians are a part of that small minority. It is too bad they have taken over this forum.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Really?
Yes, really. They do not share your hatred for the church and Christians.
Thankfully only a small minority of Americans (about 7%) dislike the church, so even most atheists are cool with Christians. The people here who routinely rave against Christians are a part of that small minority. It is too bad they have taken over this forum.
Actually, it's extreme fundamentalism that most have a problem with, whether atheist or Christian.
But again, it is difficult for you to be honest without the misrepresentations and deceptive lies.
Actually, it's extreme fundamentalism that most have a problem with, whether atheist or Christian.
Most? Only 7% of US population have a problem with Christians (and yes, that includes evangelicals), so you and your problems belong to a very small (but very angry, and very resentful) minority.
In the meanwhile, the attitudes and methods employed by people like you (gay agenda salesmen) is causing the support for LGBT to plummet even in the eyes of non-religious groups, including atheists.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-19-2019 at 05:02 AM..
Thankfully only a small minority of Americans (about 7%) dislike the church, so even most atheists are cool with Christians. The people here who routinely rave against Christians are a part of that small minority. It is too bad they have taken over this forum.
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Originally Posted by Jerwade
Actually, it's extreme fundamentalism that most have a problem with, whether atheist or Christian.
But again, it is difficult for you to be honest without the misrepresentations and deceptive lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Most? Only 7% of US population have a problem with Christians (and yes, that includes evangelicals), so you and your problems belong to a very small (but very angry, and very resentful) minority.
It's ignorance that concerns me, and your extreme fundamentalist beliefs which do not represent the whole of Christianity. You are very partial to those who would condemn others to a fictitious hellhole of damnation, if they do not believe the things that you do.
It's ignorance that concerns me, and your extreme fundamentalist beliefs which do not represent the whole of Christianity. You are very partial to those who would condemn others to a fictitious hellhole of damnation, if they do not believe the things that you do.
Hmmm.....change of topic
Even if I joined you in rejecting the words of Jesus Christ, His words would still stand. In other words, it has nothing to do with my belief. Likewise, your beliefs won't change anything, they are just your beliefs, which you use to justify your attacks on others.
There are several different kinds of ignorance going on here by our 'fundie' friends on this thread. The first one involves an appalling ignorance of human sexuality. I don't recall anyone having actually come out and admitted this but I do believe that Jeff, Finn, BFundie and a few others who come and go REALLY BELIEVE that a homosexual is none other than a heterosexual pretending to be gay. Is that correct Jeff, Finn, BFundie and the few others who come and go? If you really believed otherwise then SURELY your judgment toward these gay folks would be less harsh than it is. SO, please answer the question ...do you believe that gay people are actually straight people pretending to be gay just to spite Christians?
The second slice of appalling ignorance is with regard to scripture itself. Though I've asked 'I don't know how many times on this thread' the Jeffs, the Finns, the BFundies, et al, to point me to a piece of scripture that ACTUALLY addresses 'homosexuality' given its 21st Century definition, so far, no has done so. This is, of course, because the ancient writers had NO CLUE as to what 'homosexuality' WAS so they would have been hard pressed to actually give it a name. And, guess what? They DIDN'T give it a name! It might be that they never even witnessed the practice outside of pagan idolatry and affiliated temple prostitution. 'Adultery' was given a name. 'Murder' was given a name. 'Thieving' was given a name. 'Profaning' was given a name. 'Lying' was given a name. But 'homosexuality' wasn't given a name until in relatively recent times. And, in some post-1946 Bibles, the authors took the liberty to replace ancient terms with 'homosexuality' that clearly didn't mean 'homosexuality' because the ancient authors didn't know what 'homosexuality was!
The next piece of appalling ignorance - added to the first two slices of ignorance - is that these 'tampered with' post-1946 Bibles are actually being used to target gay people. Homosexual people - simply normal people with an innate disposition for sexual attraction toward the same gender - are being told that they are 'abominations' in God's sight and are worthy of eternal hell-fire unless they 'repent', i.e. stop playing games with we Christians and 'revert to type' (heterosexual) or otherwise remain celibate for the rest of your lives in order to please us ...um, God.
Ignorance in the hands of a powerful organization is a dangerous foe to battle with ...even though some of us will continue to do so as best we can. The Bible - ah, yes ...the Bible - tells us that the truth will set us free. There doesn't appear to be a whole lot of that (the truth) being preached today from behind many Christian pulpits, particularly with regard to this topic.
Yes, really. They do not share your hatred for the church and Christians.
I don't "hate" church and Christians, but I despise your fundamentalism which may be "christian" but doesn't resemble Jesus. It is more dangerous to America than Islamic terrorists.
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For Catherine M. Wallace, faculty member at Northwestern's Feinberg School of Medicine and author of the recently concluded book series Christian Humanism and the Moral Imagination, the Christian fundamentalist movement in the United States is more dangerous than Islamic terrorism. Wallace, a Christian herself, believes fundamentalist access to United States armaments is the number one threat to state security.
As a historian and Christian humanist, Wallace wanted to examine fundamentalism’s strongest arguments and find its weaknesses. She looked at how fundamentalist Christianity first sprung up in the Southern United States. “The religious right in its most contemporary form has an origin in Southern opposition to desegregation and to the Civil Rights Movement...a transparently racist appeal,” Wallace said.
“Christian fundamentalism is a malignant form of Christianity,” Wallace said. In her opinion, their literalist reading creates misconceptions of what the Bible means, fostering a climate of hate and leading to increased and unnecessary conflict between Christians and the rest of the world.
The fundamentalist chokehold on American politics seeks to destroy the religious and cultural plurality on which the country, and the Declaration of Independence, was based.
This is the essence of danger that these medieval minded Fundamentalists pose to our country and to the World in general. They cloak themselves in religious piety; maintain the pretense that they are highly moral people trying to do good in this world and in fact what they are is moral hypocrites, whose aim is to impose their beliefs on everyone else. They are judgmental, intolerant, bigoted and in the end not representative of their Savior, in fact they represent the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus.
And those "atheists" who "support" your "christianity?" A large portion of them are so afraid of your religious extremism that they remain in the closet, so to speak:
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The fear of coming out shows up in polling too. A 2016 PRRI survey found that more than one-third of atheists reported hiding their religious identity or beliefs from friends and family members out of concerns that they would disapprove.
^ I don't think they really believe that gay people are really straight people just pretending to be gay, but I do think they think that being gay is something that people somehow decide to be or can change. Or maybe in a way, those two things are the same.
But the bottom line is that they do not accept that this is simply the way a certain percentage of the population is, and that's it not a "sin". I think the best thing that could happen would be for them to get to know a loving couple who happen to be of the same gender, and then they would see.
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