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The numbers are symbolic. Peter reiterated the number "8" when he mentioned the flood. If 12 is the number of completion, then 8 would represent 2/3. 1/3 of the angels fell to the earth in rebellion. The water represents baptism according to Peter. Humility can occur "two or three times" in one man's lifetime, according to Job. Etc.
Wait....you expect critics of the Bible to actually READ it?
I've finished the Pentateuch in about four months and am working on Joshua---when read studying the context of the time, breaking out the various authors of the Pentateuch (JEDP) for various viewpoints, wading through the obvious factually different stories that allude to the same origin to get an understanding of the religious bias of those writers, and then trying to discover if it was one or more redactors that put the Pentateuch in its present form, seeing where Dead Sea scrolls differ from the Masoretic text, including Greek and Syriac translations, quotations from rabbinic manuscripts, the Samaritan Pentateuch, many of these being older than the Masoretic text and often contradicting it, makes for a slow and frequently boring time ranging from the Holiness Code to imprecise genealogies.
I was almost grateful to get to Joshua until I again discovered the joy of knowing the boundaries in Judea for the the twelve tribes of Israel--the cities of refuge--and other deep seated seeds of spiritual wisdom. Most of it is good only to stay a disciplined reader, but there are a few gems tucked away.
The flood story is interesting because their are parallel stories in many, many cultures, some older than Genesis--with much similarity. From the linguistic similarities there are "story line" similarities.
Southwest Tanzania
Once upon a time the rivers began to flood. The god told two people to get into a ship. He told them to take lots of seed and to take lots of animals. The water of the flood eventually covered the mountains. Finally the flood stopped. Then one of the men, wanting to know if the water had dried up let a dove loose. The dove returned. Later he let loose a hawk which did not return. Then the men left the boat and took the animals and the seeds with them.
China
The Chinese classic called the Hihking tells about "the family of Fuhi," that was saved from a great flood. This ancient story tells that the entire land was flooded; the mountains and everything, however one family survived in a boat. The Chinese consider this man the father of their civilization. This record indicates that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters were the only people that escaped the great flood. It is claimed, that he and his family were the only people alive on earth, and repopulated the world.
Babylon
Gilgamesh met an old man named Utnapishtim, who told him the following story. The gods came to Utnapishtim to warn him about a terrible flood that was coming. They instructed Utnapishtim to destroy his house and build a large ship. The ship was to be 10 dozen cubits high, wide and long. Utnapishtim was to cover the ship with pitch. He was supposed to take male and female animals of all kinds, his wife and family, provisions, etc. into the ship. Once ship was completed the rain began falling intensely. The rain fell for six days and nights. Finally things calmed and the ship settled on the top of Mount Nisir. After the ship had rested for seven days Utnapishtim let loose a dove. Since the land had not dried the dove returned. Next he sent a swallow which also returned. Later he let loose a raven which never returned since the ground had dried. Utnapishtim then left the ship.
Aztec
A man named Tapi lived a long time ago. Tapi was a very pious man. The creator told Tapi to build a boat that he would live in. He was told that he should take his wife, a pair of every animal that was alive into this boat. Naturally everyone thought he was crazy. Then the rain started and the flood came. The men and animals tried to climb the mountains but the mountains became flooded as well. Finally the rain ended. Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let a dove loose that did not return.
Inca
During the period of time called the Pachachama people became very evil. They got so busy coming up with and performing evil deeds they neglected the gods. Only those in the high Andes remained uncorrupted. Two brothers who lived in the highlands noticed their llamas acting strangely. They asked the llamas why and were told that the stars had told the llamas that a great flood was coming. This flood would destroy all the life on earth. The brothers took their families and flocks into a cave on the high mountains. It started to rain and continued for four months. As the water rose the mountain grew keeping its top above the water. Eventually the rain stopped and the waters receded. The mountain returned to its original height. The shepherds repopulated the earth. The llamas remembered the flood and that is why they prefer to live in the highland areas.
(all historical summaries from Flood Legends From Around the World)
Pick any story you wish--they do indicate a cosmic event--perhaps not ALL the earth, but certainly enough so that a lot of people in a lot of different places have told similar tales and it was pretty life threatening for them. The point is not the details of the flood--it is the fact that the "creator" decided an earthly purge was necessary.
Plenty of us bible readers think that reading scripture in isolation from everything else that occurs is unsound, improper, and not relevant for truth seekers--who continue to seek after they have supposedly found. Fundamentalists just have failed to read other histories and have ignored Greek, Syriac, and Samaritan translations and stories which can shed additional light on why so much of what we read is better accepted generally than specifically.
Plenty of us bible readers think that reading scripture in isolation from everything else that occurs is unsound, improper, and not relevant for truth seekers--who continue to seek after they have supposedly found. Fundamentalists just have failed to read other histories and have ignored Greek, Syriac, and Samaritan translations and stories which can shed additional light on why so much of what we read is better accepted generally than specifically.
No... We just take it to be God's Word and we do not lean on human understanding. At least that's what I do.
If you have a personal relationship with Christ, who according to John 1:3 is the Person whom all things came into being, why do you seek the viewpoint of anybody else with regards to the validity of the events back then?
The numbers are symbolic. Peter reiterated the number "8" when he mentioned the flood. If 12 is the number of completion, then 8 would represent 2/3. 1/3 of the angels fell to the earth in rebellion. The water represents baptism according to Peter. Humility can occur "two or three times" in one man's lifetime, according to Job. Etc.
Yes, but this kind of thing takes more than a mere school-boy reading and interpretation. Of course numbers are symbolic as are all of the stories. But there will always be those who like Nicodemus ask silly questions.
So if the flood wiped out all HUMAN life on the planet, and left just 8 people of teh same family, how do we get the twelve tribes or families of Israel? Wasn't each tribe a different family?
You do realize that that came about several generations later, don't you?...
No... We just take it to be God's Word and we do not lean on human understanding. At least that's what I do.
If you have a personal relationship with Christ, who according to John 1:3 is the Person whom all things came into being, why do you seek the viewpoint of anybody else with regards to the validity of the events back then?
I've finished the Pentateuch in about four months and am working on Joshua---when read studying the context of the time, breaking out the various authors of the Pentateuch (JEDP) for various viewpoints, wading through the obvious factually different stories that allude to the same origin to get an understanding of the religious bias of those writers, and then trying to discover if it was one or more redactors that put the Pentateuch in its present form, seeing where Dead Sea scrolls differ from the Masoretic text, including Greek and Syriac translations, quotations from rabbinic manuscripts, the Samaritan Pentateuch, many of these being older than the Masoretic text and often contradicting it, makes for a slow and frequently boring time ranging from the Holiness Code to imprecise genealogies.
I was almost grateful to get to Joshua until I again discovered the joy of knowing the boundaries in Judea for the the twelve tribes of Israel--the cities of refuge--and other deep seated seeds of spiritual wisdom. Most of it is good only to stay a disciplined reader, but there are a few gems tucked away.
The flood story is interesting because their are parallel stories in many, many cultures, some older than Genesis--with much similarity. From the linguistic similarities there are "story line" similarities.
Southwest Tanzania
Once upon a time the rivers began to flood. The god told two people to get into a ship. He told them to take lots of seed and to take lots of animals. The water of the flood eventually covered the mountains. Finally the flood stopped. Then one of the men, wanting to know if the water had dried up let a dove loose. The dove returned. Later he let loose a hawk which did not return. Then the men left the boat and took the animals and the seeds with them.
China
The Chinese classic called the Hihking tells about "the family of Fuhi," that was saved from a great flood. This ancient story tells that the entire land was flooded; the mountains and everything, however one family survived in a boat. The Chinese consider this man the father of their civilization. This record indicates that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters were the only people that escaped the great flood. It is claimed, that he and his family were the only people alive on earth, and repopulated the world.
Babylon
Gilgamesh met an old man named Utnapishtim, who told him the following story. The gods came to Utnapishtim to warn him about a terrible flood that was coming. They instructed Utnapishtim to destroy his house and build a large ship. The ship was to be 10 dozen cubits high, wide and long. Utnapishtim was to cover the ship with pitch. He was supposed to take male and female animals of all kinds, his wife and family, provisions, etc. into the ship. Once ship was completed the rain began falling intensely. The rain fell for six days and nights. Finally things calmed and the ship settled on the top of Mount Nisir. After the ship had rested for seven days Utnapishtim let loose a dove. Since the land had not dried the dove returned. Next he sent a swallow which also returned. Later he let loose a raven which never returned since the ground had dried. Utnapishtim then left the ship.
Aztec
A man named Tapi lived a long time ago. Tapi was a very pious man. The creator told Tapi to build a boat that he would live in. He was told that he should take his wife, a pair of every animal that was alive into this boat. Naturally everyone thought he was crazy. Then the rain started and the flood came. The men and animals tried to climb the mountains but the mountains became flooded as well. Finally the rain ended. Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let a dove loose that did not return.
Inca
During the period of time called the Pachachama people became very evil. They got so busy coming up with and performing evil deeds they neglected the gods. Only those in the high Andes remained uncorrupted. Two brothers who lived in the highlands noticed their llamas acting strangely. They asked the llamas why and were told that the stars had told the llamas that a great flood was coming. This flood would destroy all the life on earth. The brothers took their families and flocks into a cave on the high mountains. It started to rain and continued for four months. As the water rose the mountain grew keeping its top above the water. Eventually the rain stopped and the waters receded. The mountain returned to its original height. The shepherds repopulated the earth. The llamas remembered the flood and that is why they prefer to live in the highland areas.
(all historical summaries from Flood Legends From Around the World)
Pick any story you wish--they do indicate a cosmic event--perhaps not ALL the earth, but certainly enough so that a lot of people in a lot of different places have told similar tales and it was pretty life threatening for them. The point is not the details of the flood--it is the fact that the "creator" decided an earthly purge was necessary.
Plenty of us bible readers think that reading scripture in isolation from everything else that occurs is unsound, improper, and not relevant for truth seekers--who continue to seek after they have supposedly found. Fundamentalists just have failed to read other histories and have ignored Greek, Syriac, and Samaritan translations and stories which can shed additional light on why so much of what we read is better accepted generally than specifically.
It's suspicious that, although there are flood stories, their is nothing else that alludes to similarities of G-d and commandments and the such...That website is also a Christian site, I'd like to see something unbiased...
Luke 18:8 - "I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?"
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