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Good point Thrill, but it doesn't make the bible fraud at all, in fact it supports the bible in the relation of what the world would be like in the last days, in the days when Israel are going back to Israel, in these days a great falling away from Torah comes to the majorities, and while they say they believe in the God of the bible, they are in fact,'' Lawless.''
Isn't that what has happened?
These days have been described by all the prophets because God knew the future, planned the future, and wrote the future down.
Everyone will be ashamed of their prophesy.
You know, Hannibal it's interesting: All I've ever asked is for Christians to read my examples of errors in the Bible and just consider them, "Maybe Thrillobyte is right. Maybe this really is an eroor."
But instead all I get are accusations of, "Why are you trying to tear down our faith?" Don' they realize that a faith built on a firm foundation of truth cannot be challenged or torn down? If an error exists as James 5:14-15 clearly is then no one should have faith in such a defective book because obviously it is NOT the word of God.
But you are comparing what has been presented for 2000 years, not actually what was happening in those first decades.
Edit~ Even looking at what is happening in Syria, and what happened in the Arab spring was the first time in it's history. What happens in Damascus now was already written down.
Okay, Hannibal, let just assume for a moment you're right.
When James says, "Is there any sick among you?" do you think James is talking about spiritual sickness or physical sickness?
You know, Hannibal when I point our an error in scripture all I want is for people to consider what I suggest about the verse, that it IS an error and maybe research it. Instead all I get are accusations of, "Why are trying to tear down our faith?" But don't you agree that a faith built on a foundation of truth cannot be torn down. If James 5:14-15 is not the truth wouldn't Christians want to know their faith is not built on a foundation of truth?
Last edited by thrillobyte; 11-09-2015 at 03:15 PM..
Okay, disclaimer: I did some further reading on this and apparently there is a Greek word, kammo that appears in the text that gives those insisting it is NOT physical healing James is talking about a way out. So I must concede the point cannot be defended effectively on my side, but can be argued with the tactic of instilling doubt on the other side. It's the same defense used in the OJ case: raise one shred of doubt and you've won the day.
I concede the point. I don't think I'm wrong, but I acknowledge the Greek is too vague to make a definitive determination.
Okay, Hannibal, let just assume for a moment you're right.
When James says, "Is there any sick among you?" do you think James is talking about spiritual sickness or physical sickness?
You know, Hannibal when I point our an error in scripture all I want is for people to consider what I suggest about the verse, that it IS an error and maybe research it. Instead all I get are accusations of, "Why are trying to tear down our faith?" But don't you agree that a faith built on a foundation of truth cannot be torn down. If James 5:14-15 is not the truth wouldn't Christians want to know their faith is not built on a foundation of truth?
Christians don't want to know anything Thrill, That's why I like you, you are more interested than most Christians I know. Ten years ago, I would have given somebody ten thousand dollars to tell me what I know now and although I know that I have a treasure, I couldn't give it away for free just because people don't wanna know Thrill. People toss around Jesus and Jesus that but they aren't really interested. I always used to assume that people wanted to know the truth but it is an incorrect assumption. Contradictions is exactly what has shaped me. I can't live with contradiction and I don't want to waste my life away on something based on contradiction and when you show promises in the New testament that are clear contradictions, then yeah, somebody should take notice and they should look in the mirror and admit,'' I CAN'T DO WHAT IT SAYS I CAN DO.''
They can't do the things it says an indwelled believer can do because there are no indwelled believers but Christians don't want to admit this.
You have a valid point but it doesn't put the bible in a bad light, it puts the followers in a bad light. You follow Jesus and give up everything. There are requirements to fulfill for a gentile, and requirements to fulfill if you want to be a priest. If you fulfill those requirements then you get the promise but the requirements are hard and nobody wants to do them. There is a way to test God but nobody wants to test him.
But no Thrill, people should be interested in what you are saying about the supposed abilities of a follower of Christ indwelled with a Holy spirit, but they don't wanna know, they don't wanna put it to the test. Nobody has an indwelling, but how many will admit this?
Christians don't want to know anything Thrill, That's why I like you, you are more interested than most Christians I know. Ten years ago, I would have given somebody ten thousand dollars to tell me what I know now and although I know that I have a treasure, I couldn't give it away for free just because people don't wanna know Thrill. People toss around Jesus and Jesus that but they aren't really interested. I always used to assume that people wanted to know the truth but it is an incorrect assumption. Contradictions is exactly what has shaped me. I can't live with contradiction and I don't want to waste my life away on something based on contradiction and when you show promises in the New testament that are clear contradictions, then yeah, somebody should take notice and they should look in the mirror and admit,'' I CAN'T DO WHAT IT SAYS I CAN DO.''
They can't do the things it says an indwelled believer can do because there are no indwelled believers but Christians don't want to admit this.
You have a valid point but it doesn't put the bible in a bad light, it puts the followers in a bad light. You follow Jesus and give up everything. There are requirements to fulfill for a gentile, and requirements to fulfill if you want to be a priest. If you fulfill those requirements then you get the promise but the requirements are hard and nobody wants to do them. There is a way to test God but nobody wants to test him.
But no Thrill, people should be interested in what you are saying about the supposed abilities of a follower of Christ indwelled with a Holy spirit, but they don't wanna know, they don't wanna put it to the test. Nobody has an indwelling, but how many will admit this?
Thank you, Hannibal. It's nice to know I've got at least one friend around here.
I'll tell you what the ironic thing about all this is: now that detractors have stripped the hell out of James 5:14-15 and made it totally ineffective except for spiritual healing, as if anybody really knows or even cares if they suffer from that "malady", Christians now don't have a single verse from the Bible that promises them a cure for physical illness. But guess what is the biggest money-maker in the Christian faith:
"FAITH HEALING"!!!!!!!!!!!
Not a single verse from the Bible to stand on to support physical healing of disease and this is what 98% of Christians turn to prayer for when someone in their family gets sick. If that isn't the height of irony I don't know what is. It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
Thank you, Hannibal. It's nice to know I've got at least one friend around here.
I'll tell you what the ironic thing about all this is: now that detractors have stripped the hell out of James 5:14-15 and made it totally ineffective except for spiritual healing, as if anybody really knows or even cares if they suffer from that "malady", Christians now don't have a single verse from the Bible that promises them a cure for physical illness. But guess what is the biggest money-maker in the Christian faith:
"FAITH HEALING"!!!!!!!!!!!
Not a single verse from the Bible to stand on to support physical healing of disease and this is what 98% of Christians turn to prayer for when someone in their family gets sick. If that isn't the height of irony I don't know what is. It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
Yup, If I was dishonest and didn't believe in God, I could make a fortune at selling God, and telling people what they want to hear. Hope is something that has no end. Hope, people selling hope and if there is just a sliver of a chance, they buy.
Yup, If I was dishonest and didn't believe in God, I could make a fortune at selling God, and telling people what they want to hear. Hope is something that has no end. Hope, people selling hope and if there is just a sliver of a chance, they buy.
Yep.
Con men, hucksters of all stripes, religious and non, are $ucce$$ful by appealing to either greed or hope in their $ucker$.
A man of faith sees the scriptures, and looks for faith .
However, man of sin sees the scriptures, and looks for sin.
While I disagree with Paul's teaching in general, there are a few things I can agree with him on .
The same with any of the other writers of the word .
I have no problem with all that God is recorded to have said , both in the new and old testaments.
Not all that is included in scriptures though, is "God's word" (Most intelligent people know this), it is mixed with men's experiences and "their" perspectives .
Men did/wrote a lot of thing's God did not approve of, but were, and had been adopted as policy ,things Jesus did not approve of and made issue with.
Many "Christians" are followers of Paul as a result, not of Jesus. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
I saw this as a problem, but I learned something.
If a man loves God , and not the accolade of men, God will reveal Himself ,just as much as the man chooses to be corrected by God, and not taught of men or self.
A man not corrected of God is not a son.
Jesus provided the Holy spirit to do this.
Scriptures are a mystery, and now I believe they are suppose to be .
Jesus said the way is narrow, and FEW there be that find it.
Very few.
Thank you, Hannibal. It's nice to know I've got at least one friend around here.
I'll tell you what the ironic thing about all this is: now that detractors have stripped the hell out of James 5:14-15 and made it totally ineffective except for spiritual healing, as if anybody really knows or even cares if they suffer from that "malady", Christians now don't have a single verse from the Bible that promises them a cure for physical illness. But guess what is the biggest money-maker in the Christian faith:
"FAITH HEALING"!!!!!!!!!!!
Not a single verse from the Bible to stand on to support physical healing of disease and this is what 98% of Christians turn to prayer for when someone in their family gets sick. If that isn't the height of irony I don't know what is. It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
There are actually several verses on healing , you need to work on your reading comprehension.
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It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
