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Old 11-16-2015, 07:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
.

Prophecy: Zech 8:13 –520 BC; Jer 32:37-41– prox. 600 BC – Jews will be preserved and ultimately return to their homeland.
Fulfillment: 1948 – For the first time in over 2000 years, Jewish nation of Israel restored. Since then, millions of Jews have returned to Israel.
Did OK until the last one. When God restores His Kingdom His worship would be restored and it hasn't and won'tbe by the current Nation of Israel. A secular Nation with no intention of changing and still rejecting His Son, thus not a blessing or a fulfillment of any rophecyat all, just a pseudo restoration.
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:10 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Such a pessimist.
Common jeffy, he started it!
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:12 PM
 
Location: US
29,395 posts, read 16,442,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Actually, I've been working these issues for the past 25+-years and have two of my own books in process - The section you objected to is my work, unless otherwise noted, such as with Professor Stoner's quotes, which are pretty compelling (and beyond my math skills).

If they are beyond your own math skills then how do you know they are accurate?...
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:14 PM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Here are just a few Messianic Prophecies -- There are a ton of other direct historical prophecies that were accurately fulfilled, if anyone is interested in more than simply nay-saying:

300 MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
Over 300 Messianic prophecies reveal intimate details of a long awaited Messiah and deliverer of mankind, promised by God. These amazingly clear and explicit Messianic prophecies were accurately fulfilled in every aspect of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, during His earthly lifetime. They leave no doubt that Jesus Christ alone is the long-awaited Messiah and Savior of mankind promised by God. There are also numerous prophecies affirming the ‘End Time’ return of Christ to earth.

In his book, “Science Speaks – An Evaluation of Certain Christian Evidences”, Professor Peter Stoner mathematically calculated the probability of any one person in history accurately fulfilling only a few of Scripture’s 300-350 Messianic prophecies. Professor Stoner narrowed-down his analysis to only include eight specific prophecies. He then drew calculated conclusions about the odds of any other living individual accurately fulfilling only these eight Messianic prophecies.
• Based on the estimated number of people that lived until the birth of Christ, the odds were 1X10 to the twenty-eighth power of any one person accurately fulfilling these eight prophecies (That’s 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!)

• Based on the estimated number of living people until modern times (1957), the odds were reduced to 1X10 to the seventeenth power!
The addition of even more prophecies beyond these eight, is pointless. The odds of any other person in history fulfilling only a fraction of the Messianic prophecies accurately fulfilled by Jesus Christ, are already astronomically impossible! [#2P).]. The eight Old Testament prophecies selected by Professor Stoner (and unquestionably fulfilled by Jesus Christ), were:
1. Born in Bethlehem - Micah 5:2
2. A messenger (John the Baptist), sent to prepare His way – Malachi 3:1
3. Entered Jerusalem as a ‘ruler,’ riding on a colt (foal of an ass) – Zechariah 9:9
4. Wounds in hands suffered as a result of the betrayal of a friend –Zechariah 13:6
5. Betrayed for 30-pieces of silver - Zechariah 11:12
6. Silver returned, but, not accepted; given (cast) to the potter – Zechariah 11:13
7. Oppressed/afflicted, like a lamb to slaughter, yet, spoke not a word (Isaiah 53:7)
8. Hands and feet pierced in the assembly of the wicked – Psalm 22:16

In his forward to Dr. Stoner’s book, H. Harold Hartzler, Ph.D, the Secretary-Treasurer to “American Scientific Affiliation” writes: “The manuscript ‘Science Speaks’ has been carefully reviewed by a committee of the American Scientific Affiliation members…and Executive Council…and has been found, in general, to be dependable and accurate in regard to the scientific material presented. The mathematical analysis included is based upon principles of probability which are thoroughly sound and Professor Stoner has applied these principles in a proper and convincing way.” (#3P). )
How do you know that he fulfilled any prophecies at all?...
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Frank, Luke was written circa 90 AD---LONG after the Jews had been dispersed in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It doesn't take prophetic vision to "prophesize" an event decades after it has taken place.

Joel 3:6 The Jews were never sold to the Greeks. Failed prophecy.
What source says that it was written circa 90 AD? And for the sake of the argument, even if that were true, the information I posted took place much later concerning the scattering of the black Israelites via things like the Arab and Trans-Atlantic slave trades.


Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Did OK until the last one. When God restores His Kingdom His worship would be restored and it hasn't and won'tbe by the current Nation of Israel. A secular Nation with no intention of changing and still rejecting His Son, thus not a blessing or a fulfillment of any rophecyat all, just a pseudo restoration.
Yes, the real Israelites are still in exile.
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:16 PM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Frank Lucas View Post
What source says that it was written circa 90 AD? And for the sake of the argument, even if that were true, the information I posted took place much later concerning the scattering of the black Israelites via things like the Arab and Trans-Atlantic slave trades.




Yes, the real Israelites are still in exile.
You cannot prove any of this...
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:29 PM
 
13,318 posts, read 12,363,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Actually, I've been working these issues for the past 25+-years and have two of my own books in process - The section you objected to is my work, unless otherwise noted, such as with Professor Stoner's quotes, which are pretty compelling (and beyond my math skills).

What is your objection? Do you have any facts, figures or information ... or are you simply here to snap-out one-liners that tear down others .... without adding any substance or merit of your own?
jg, honestly a good rabbi could and has refuted every single one of these as not having ANYTHING to do with Jesus Christ at the most and the Messiah at the least. Any application made to Jesus Christ was a painful twisting and turning of the meaning of the original text by the gospel writers to shoehorn it into the fables constructed around Jesus. This has been proven time and time and time again. I know your mind is shut as tight as a steel trap, but I hope others who are reading this post will take a hint and do some serious research into whether any prophecies were ever fulfilled by Jesus and when they have researched the subject they will come away as I reluctantly did convinced that nothing in the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus. All of it was constructed after 80 years of myths and fables about the Christ circulating through the Mediterranean by Gnostics and Essenes and various other extinct religious groups seeking to start a new faith.

Quote:
Did the prophets know what they were talking about?

From our perspective it is obvious that Matthew was reading Jesus into the prophecies he quoted. When we examine those prophecies in their own contexts, it is clear, for example, that Zechariah had no foreknowledge of Judas when he spoke about the thirty silver coins, and that Isaiah was not thinking about the birth of Jesus when he challenged King Ahaz with the news that "the young woman is pregnant and will have a son and will name him Immanuel" (Isa 7:14, quoted in Matt 1:23). The woman in question was someone Isaiah and Ahaz knew (note that she is "the young woman"), almost certainly one of Ahaz's wives. Respect for the Bible requires us to understand the prophets as speaking to their own times, with messages that they and their audiences understood in relation to their situations centuries before the time of Jesus.
https://www.westarinstitute.org/reso...fill-prophecy/
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:37 PM
 
13,318 posts, read 12,363,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lucas View Post
What source says that it was written circa 90 AD? And for the sake of the argument, even if that were true, the information I posted took place much later concerning the scattering of the black Israelites via things like the Arab and Trans-Atlantic slave trades.




Yes, the real Israelites are still in exile.
Oh good grief, Frank. EVERY SCHOLAR of any reputation, even the fundamentalist ones, admits that the earliest gospel, Mark was written circa 70-75 AD, Matthew 80 AD, Luke 90 AD and John somewhere between 95 and 100 AD. Even Mike will admit to John coming circa 95 AD or so.

Quote:
Most experts date the composition of the combined work to around 80-90 AD, although some suggest 90-110 Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Luke
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:37 PM
 
Location: US
29,395 posts, read 16,442,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
jg, honestly a good rabbi could and has refuted every single one of these as not having ANYTHING to do with Jesus Christ at the most and the Messiah at the least. Any application made to Jesus Christ was a painful twisting and turning of the meaning of the original text by the gospel writers to shoehorn it into the fables constructed around Jesus. This has been proven time and time and time again. I know your mind is shut as tight as a steel trap, but I hope others who are reading this post will take a hint and do some serious research into whether any prophecies were ever fulfilled by Jesus and when they have researched the subject they will come away as I reluctantly did convinced that nothing in the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus. All of it was constructed after 80 years of myths and fables about the Christ circulating through the Mediterranean by Gnostics and Essenes and various other extinct religious groups seeking to start a new faith.



https://www.westarinstitute.org/reso...fill-prophecy/
Go ahead and peruse this... - What Jews Believe
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:39 PM
 
13,318 posts, read 12,363,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Go ahead and peruse this... - What Jews Believe
From the website


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