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Old 11-16-2015, 07:42 PM
 
Location: US
29,392 posts, read 16,439,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
From the website


[/indent]
Cool...But I meant go in-depth...
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:51 PM
 
369 posts, read 311,778 times
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You cannot prove any of this...
Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.



Deuteronomy 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

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Old 11-16-2015, 07:52 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lucas View Post
Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.



Deuteronomy 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

How about putting those in context?...
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:53 PM
 
Location: US
29,392 posts, read 16,439,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lucas View Post
Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.



Deuteronomy 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

BTW...The majority of the black slaves brought to America were Muslims...
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:57 PM
 
Location: US
29,392 posts, read 16,439,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lucas View Post
Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.



Deuteronomy 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deuteronomy 28:

48Therefore, you will serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, [when you are] in famine, thirst, destitution, and lacking everything, and he will place an iron yoke upon your neck, until he has destroyed you.


Deuteronomy 28:

49The Lord will bring upon you a nation from afar, from the end of the earth, as the eagle swoops down, a nation whose language you will not understand,


Can you not comprehend?...
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:58 PM
 
369 posts, read 311,778 times
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
BTW...The majority of the black slaves brought to America were Muslims...
Even if that is true, that doesn't mean they weren't Israelites. Israelite is a nationality, not a religion...
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Old 11-16-2015, 08:06 PM
Status: "Once upon a time known as Mike555" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: El Paso, TX
24,329 posts, read 18,309,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
jg, honestly a good rabbi could and has refuted every single one of these as not having ANYTHING to do with Jesus Christ at the most and the Messiah at the least. Any application made to Jesus Christ was a painful twisting and turning of the meaning of the original text by the gospel writers to shoehorn it into the fables constructed around Jesus. This has been proven time and time and time again. I know your mind is shut as tight as a steel trap, but I hope others who are reading this post will take a hint and do some serious research into whether any prophecies were ever fulfilled by Jesus and when they have researched the subject they will come away as I reluctantly did convinced that nothing in the Old Testament had anything to do with Jesus. All of it was constructed after 80 years of myths and fables about the Christ circulating through the Mediterranean by Gnostics and Essenes and various other extinct religious groups seeking to start a new faith.



https://www.westarinstitute.org/reso...fill-prophecy/
No, it has not been proven time and time and time again. That is your biased and dishonest claim. And what do you not understand about the fact as I have previously told you that many Jewish rabbis through the centuries have understood Isaiah 53 to be referring to the Messiah?

You presented a link that you hope will convince people that the Old Testament prophecies weren't about Jesus. I'll repost the links I provided on your thread concerning the fact that who Isaiah 53 refers to has been debated among the Jews through out history. As Messianic Jew Dr. Michael L. Brown states,
'It is impossible, both contextually and logically, for Isaiah 53 to be speaking of the people of Israel. Rather, the text clearly speaks of one individual, and as many rabbis recognized through the ages, that individual was the Messiah.' [Bolded mine]

'For the last thousand years, religious Jews have often interpreted Isaiah 53 with reference to the people of Israel, but that has by no means been the consensus interpretation, and it is not the interpretation of the Talmudic rabbis. So, for example, the Targum interprets the passage with reference to the Messiah---as a warring, victorious king, even to the point of completely twisting the meaning of key verses---while the Talmud generally interprets the passage with reference to the Messiah, or key individuals (like Moses or Phineas), or the righteous.' [Michael L. Brown, Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, p. 49]
Dr. Brown goes on to note that although Rashi, Ibn Ezra, and Radak interpreted Isaiah 53 as referring to Israel, other Jewish leaders such as Moses ben Nachman held to the ancient tradition of the Talmudic rabbis that Isaiah 53 refers an individual, rather than the nation. He has much more to say about it, but the above is enough to show that various interpretations of Isaiah have been held among Jewish rabbis.

Some of Dr. Brown's lectures concerning this are available on YouTube. Shown below is part of a lecture in which he addresses the objection that Isaiah 53 speaks of the people of Israel, not Jesus.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9J9ByB4UhY

The next video is longer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LorWCJ59CAg

In this next video, Dr. Michael Rydelnik, Dr. Michael Brown, Dr. Walter Kaiser, and Dr. Darrell Bock discuss the issue of who the servant is in Isaiah 53.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEdGeDX0Y3U

Now it is true that certain passages do refer to Israel as the righteous servant. But it is equally true that other passages refer to an individual as the righteous servant. And many rabbis through the ages, have viewed Isaiah 53 as referring to the Messiah.

For you to claim that it has been proven that the Old Testament prophecies were not about Jesus is simply dishonest. And before you go accusing others of having a closed mind you need to take a good hard look at yourself.
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Old 11-16-2015, 08:26 PM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Frank Lucas View Post
Even if that is true, that doesn't mean they weren't Israelites. Israelite is a nationality, not a religion...
Prove that...
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Old 11-16-2015, 08:53 PM
Status: "Once upon a time known as Mike555" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: El Paso, TX
24,329 posts, read 18,309,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Oh good grief, Frank. EVERY SCHOLAR of any reputation, even the fundamentalist ones, admits that the earliest gospel, Mark was written circa 70-75 AD, Matthew 80 AD, Luke 90 AD and John somewhere between 95 and 100 AD. Even Mike will admit to John coming circa 95 AD or so.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Luke
Your claim that EVERY SCHOLAR of any reputation, even the fundamentalist ones date the synoptic Gospels that late is demonstrably not true.

Acts was written by Luke after he wrote the Gospel of Luke. A date for Acts as early as the late 50's to early 60's has good arguments to support it. And if Acts was indeed written that early, then since Luke was written before Acts but after Matthew and Mark that means that they are also dated to the late 50's or early 60's.

D. A. Carson and Douglas Moo write concerning the dating of Acts;
Suggested dates for the book of Acts range across almost a century, from A.D. 62, the date at which the last event of the book takes place, to the middle of the second century, when the first clear reference to Acts occurs. Most scholars locate Acts in one of three periods of time within this range. 62-70, 80-95, or 115-130.

[An Introduction to the New Testament, p. 296]
After discussing the reasons why some scholars date Acts to the second century, and others to a date of 80-85, Carson and Moo provide the arguments for a pre-A.D. 70 dating.

Among those arguments are the fact that Luke doesn't mention Paul's death, there's no mention of the Neronian persecution which had it occurred when Luke was writing would have affected the Narrative in some way, and the fact that Luke apparently doesn't know about Paul's letters. Carson and Moo argue for a dating of Acts to the mid 60's.

There are other arguments for a dating of Acts to the early 60's which Carson and Moo didn't mention, such as the fact that Luke doesn't mention the death of James the brother of Jesus or the death of Peter.

All of those are good arguments for a dating of Acts to the early 60's. And again, Acts was written after the Gospel of Luke which was written after the Gospels of Matthew and Mark.

The Gospel of John however is thought to have been written around A.D. 95 though some have dated it earlier.

Last edited by Michael Way; 11-16-2015 at 09:03 PM..
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Old 11-16-2015, 09:00 PM
Status: "Overdue for a hug." (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
28,309 posts, read 14,987,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lucas View Post
Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.



Deuteronomy 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
LOL.

You'd be hilarious if you weren't allowed to vote.
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