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I've only worked and studied with ONE of the prophecies--the failed prophecy of Nebuchadrezzar destroying Tyre.
The middle chapters of Ezekiel describe the author's specific problem with Tyre.
Ezekiel 26:3-6:
Quote:
therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and will bring up many nations against you, as the sea brings up its waves. They shall destroy the walls of Tyre, and break down her towers; and I will scrape her soil from her, and make her a bare rock. She shall be in the midst of the sea a place for the spreading of nets; for I have spoken, says the Lord GOD; and she shall become a spoil to the nations; and her daughters on the mainland shall be slain by the sword. Then they will know that I am the LORD.
Note that by habit Jewish OT authors loved using plays on words. The Hebrew word for Tyre means "rock." And God is promising a bare rock. Mostly these first verses are quite open and tie us into nothing historically. But the next verses tighten it up quite a bit. Ezekiel 26:7-14:
Quote:
"For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will bring upon Tyre from the north Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, and with horsemen and a host of many soldiers. He will slay with the sword your daughters on the mainland; he will set up a siege wall against you, and throw up a mound against you, and raise a roof of shields against you. He will direct the shock of his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers. His horses will be so many that their dust will cover you; your walls will shake at the noise of the horsemen and wagons and chariots, when he enters your gates as one enters a city which has been breached. With the hoofs of his horses he will trample all your streets; he will slay your people with the sword; and your mighty pillars will fall to the ground. They will make a spoil of your riches and a prey of your merchandise; they will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses; your stones and timber and soil they will cast into the midst of the waters. And I will stop the music of your songs, and the sound of your lyres shall be heard no more. I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for the spreading of nets; you shall never be rebuilt; for I the LORD have spoken, says the Lord GOD.
Verse seven starts with FOR says the Lord God--which ties it back to the previous four verses. In seven through fourteen God specifies how this will be done.
Except it wasn't done in this fashion--even Ezekiel saw it later and rewrote the ending to his book. Nebuchadrezzar never conquered the fortress of Tyre. He did conquer the outlying suburbs that were not a part of the island fortress. He lay siege for more than a decade but couldn't destroy it. That was left to Alexander almost 250 years later--and although Alexander destroyed a good portion of the island fortress--he didn't destroy it all. More importantly it didn't stay destroyed. It was immediately rebuilt and is an important seaport for Lebanon today after serving Greeks and Romans for centuries.
Moreover Ezekiel eventually recognized the failure of his prophecy because he wrote in Ezekiel 29:17-20
Quote:
In the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me: "Son of man, Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare; yet neither he nor his army got anything from Tyre to pay for the labor that he had performed against it. Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon; and he shall carry off its wealth and despoil it and plunder it; and it shall be the wages for his army. I have given him the land of Egypt as his recompense for which he labored, because they worked for me, says the Lord GOD.
So Ezekiel unapologetically changed the prophecy to what DID occur--and that was Nebbie gave up on Tyre and took Egypt instead.
There have been all sorts of word games by verbal inspirationists attempting to reinterpret what happened and it includes the absurd assumption that Ezekiel didn't have a clue as to what he was writing at the time--it was all 250 years in the future and he never saw it because he was drowned in horror of the news of his own day. But it doesn't match what those same people do with other prophecies.
When people try to reduce the word of God to prophecies it is not redemptive for God’s people in on ongoing way, and becomes nothing more than a level of proof to bolster their own criteria of validation.
And that is my cry against fundamentalism constantly. As much as they claim only "faith" is needed, they spend a remarkable amount of time on "proofs," of God's existence--like OT prophecies when almost all of what was written was seen by the writers in light of their own world circumstances. Faith obviously is inadequate--if one needs "proof."
Last edited by Wardendresden; 11-16-2015 at 09:48 PM..
Biblical history relates that the descendants of Abraham, namely Jacob (Israel) and his twelve sons and their wives, 70 in all, migrated from Canaan to Egypt around the year 1827 B.C. During their sojourn in Egypt the Children of Israel multiplied from being a family of 70 souls to a nation of over 3 million people at the time of the Exodus which took place in 1612 B.C.
This astounding number of people in so short a time can only be adequately explained by intermarriage between the family of Jacob and the native Egyptian populace. It is an established fact that the ancient Egyptians were a black African people. Thus, even if the Hebrews were not black before they arrived in Egypt, which is unlikely given Abraham's background, they were definitely black by the time they left Egypt under Moses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
LOL.
You'd be hilarious if you weren't allowed to vote.
This information is pertinent to people of all races. Facts are facts and people deserve to know the truth.
Biblical history relates that the descendants of Abraham, namely Jacob (Israel) and his twelve sons and their wives, 70 in all, migrated from Canaan to Egypt around the year 1827 B.C. During their sojourn in Egypt the Children of Israel multiplied from being a family of 70 souls to a nation of over 3 million people at the time of the Exodus which took place in 1612 B.C.
This astounding number of people in so short a time can only be adequately explained by intermarriage between the family of Jacob and the native Egyptian populace. It is an established fact that the ancient Egyptians were a black African people. Thus, even if the Hebrews were not black before they arrived in Egypt, which is unlikely given Abraham's background, they were definitely black by the time they left Egypt under Moses
This information is pertinent to people of all races. Facts are facts and people deserve to know the truth.
Abraham was a Sumerian...And the Israelites would not have intermarried with Egyptians...Although Egyptian Gentiles did accompany them from Egypt and also took on the Torah along with the Israelites at Sinai...
Abraham was a Sumerian...And the Israelites would not have intermarried with Egyptians...Although Egyptian Gentiles did accompany them from Egypt and also took on the Torah along with the Israelites at Sinai...
Seventy Israelites went into captivity in Egypt and during the 400 years the Israelites were in captivity in Egypt they and their descendants intermarried with non-Israelites. (The Israelites were in Egypt 430 years, 400 in captivity.) The group of over 600,000 men plus women and children that left Egypt under Moses was a "mixed multitude". Ethnically, their ancestors were a combination of Hamitic Egyptians and Semitic Israelites.
Actually, I've been working these issues for the past 25+-years and have two of my own books in process - The section you objected to is my work, unless otherwise noted, such as with Professor Stoner's quotes, which are pretty compelling (and beyond my math skills).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
If they are beyond your own math skills then how do you know they are accurate?...
If any of the history is inaccurate or was a representative of someone else.
Then, any probability would be mathematically erroneous or skewed.
Seventy Israelites went into captivity in Egypt and during the 400 years the Israelites were in captivity in Egypt they and their descendants intermarried with non-Israelites. (The Israelites were in Egypt 430 years, 400 in captivity.) The group of over 600,000 men plus women and children that left Egypt under Moses was a "mixed multitude". Ethnically, their ancestors were a combination of Hamitic Egyptians and Semitic Israelites.
Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
Deuteronomy 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
What in heck does this have to do with anything. Were the blacks in bondage to the Assyrians or something?
I've only worked and studied with ONE of the prophecies--the failed prophecy of Nebuchadrezzar destroying Tyre.
The middle chapters of Ezekiel describe the author's specific problem with Tyre.
Ezekiel 26:3-6:
Note that by habit Jewish OT authors loved using plays on words. The Hebrew word for Tyre means "rock." And God is promising a bare rock. Mostly these first verses are quite open and tie us into nothing historically. But the next verses tighten it up quite a bit. Ezekiel 26:7-14:
Verse seven starts with FOR says the Lord God--which ties it back to the previous four verses. In seven through fourteen God specifies how this will be done.
Except it wasn't done in this fashion--even Ezekiel saw it later and rewrote the ending to his book. Nebuchadrezzar never conquered the fortress of Tyre. He did conquer the outlying suburbs that were not a part of the island fortress. He lay siege for more than a decade but couldn't destroy it. That was left to Alexander almost 250 years later--and although Alexander destroyed a good portion of the island fortress--he didn't destroy it all. More importantly it didn't stay destroyed. It was immediately rebuilt and is an important seaport for Lebanon today after serving Greeks and Romans for centuries.
Moreover Ezekiel eventually recognized the failure of his prophecy because he wrote in Ezekiel 29:17-20
So Ezekiel unapologetically changed the prophecy to what DID occur--and that was Nebbie gave up on Tyre and took Egypt instead.
There have been all sorts of word games by verbal inspirationists attempting to reinterpret what happened and it includes the absurd assumption that Ezekiel didn't have a clue as to what he was writing at the time--it was all 250 years in the future and he never saw it because he was drowned in horror of the news of his own day. But it doesn't match what those same people do with other prophecies.
When people try to reduce the word of God to prophecies it is not redemptive for God’s people in on ongoing way, and becomes nothing more than a level of proof to bolster their own criteria of validation.
And that is my cry against fundamentalism constantly. As much as they claim only "faith" is needed, they spend a remarkable amount of time on "proofs," of God's existence--like OT prophecies when almost all of what was written was seen by the writers in light of their own world circumstances. Faith obviously is inadequate--if one needs "proof."
Mike, read this post VERY CAREFULLY and try to comprehend what Warden is saying:
If even ONE prophecy fails then the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God. This prophecy failed, as Warden points out.
The Bible therefore passes from the category of "From the lips of God directly to mankind" to "A book filled with some good advice, but certainly not perfect and most certainly NOT the inspired Word of God."
Sorry but that's the reality of things.
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