Faith, Works, and the Commandments (church, believe, scriptures, prayers)

[majestic33]

Like it or not, the truth is that Paul preached to the gentiles that keeping the commandemnts mattered.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Obviously keeping the commandements is only part of the equation. We must have faith. But As James tells us faith is made perfect by works.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Please don't jump on this post with rhetoric about trying to earn your salvation. No one is saying that. Only that, by works and keeping the commandments faith is made perfect.

[Miss Blue]

I believe if you have faith and love that works comes naturally..Works comes in many forms, not just in singing in the choir, teaching Sunday School or cleaning your Church..Works are everyday deeds that are pleasing to God and are for the betterment of mankind..If you keep the commandment Jesus gave about love, you will keep the rest of them, as He said..This of course is jmo..

[johnrex62]

Paul taught that keeping the commandments is important because the commandments are the core of belief enven under the new testament church. He expounded on that by saying that keeping the law by the letter without the spirit was as much sin as breaking the law.

This is not what the old testament church taught by any stretch of the imagination.

James pointed out that Abraham had used works to demonstrate his faith and thus perfected faith through works. James is not trying to say that works are interchangeable with faith, rather that faith begats works and faith without works is very likely to be false faith.

We are charged with knowing our fellow man by his works, and thus knowing his heart. That charge is dependant upon us acting on our faith or else we will not be known. We are likewise charged with becoming an example to the world and a beacon to the lost that they might be saved. How better to accomplish both of those duties than by our works produced by faith?

Works can also be used to deceive and trick when corrupted by ill intention. Those without faith might become wolves in the flock of sheep by impersonating one of the faith. Those persons will use works to "prove" faith where faith does not exist. We will use those works to judge their hearts and be tricked by this. While we can only judge faith by it fruits, aka works, we must be on guard against this type of deception by judging those works honestly and without bias. We must recognize that Paul and James are not trying to tell us that our works can save us, nor that adherence to set law is as important as acceptance of Jesus Christ as savior. They are only trying to tell us that our works are our way of demonstrating our faith.

Blue62 is absolutely correct that works do not need to be of a specific nature or degree of difficulty to qualify. They must only be of the heart and true to the dictates of our faith.

[freedom]

How much did Jesus teach about salvation?

Are we here just to be salvaged? or are we here to do the works of Christ, which come through being and living Christ. If you do not as he says, then you have no promise. To you who can believe the things I do ye shall do and more...

This generation has gotten so hung up on thinking that its all about salvation, that they have lost the knowledge of the divine nature and being quickened, born of God and all the other divine blessings that come through seeking diligently.
Jesus came and brought the higher teachings of Love, how love overcomes all things, all weaknesses, and all dis-ease. Without Love everything counts as nothing.
Love see's the commandments in the light of opportunity, not burden.

godspeed,

freedom

[SeekerSA]

The way I see works is as Jesus taught.

Mat 25:37 Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, and fed You? Or thirsty, and gave You drink?
Mat 25:38 When did we see You a stranger, and took You in? Or naked, and clothed You?
Mat 25:39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and came to You?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you have done it to Me.

It is the simple things we do out of the abundance of His Love for us. When we touch folk outside the confines of the church and meet their immediate needs, IMO that is the works that open doors to witnessing.


The hungry need to be fed and clothed
The thirsty may just require a drink of water
The stranger seeks friendship
The sick desire fellowship, someone to talk to
The prisoner needs to know he/she is still loved

Service in the "ministry of helps" in a church does not reach the world.

Freely you have received, freely give

Edit: Forgot the commandment bit.

The two Love commandments of Jesus, loving the Lord and loving your neigbor as yourself.


Blessings

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by majestic33

Like it or not, the truth is that Paul preached to the gentiles that keeping the commandemnts mattered.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Obviously keeping the commandements is only part of the equation. We must have faith. But As James tells us faith is made perfect by works.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Please don't jump on this post with rhetoric about trying to earn your salvation. No one is saying that. Only that, by works and keeping the commandments faith is made perfect.

True faith can only be observed by God. Who can see into anothers heart? No one....... but God, So...... what do we (people) observe in the faithful?
"you will know them by their fruit".

A seed does not need to be told what to produce. Put an apple seed in the ground... you get apples, put faith in the ground, get fruits of the spirit. What good is beautiful healthy apples if no one eats them? and no one is nurished? and does not produce more seeds?
Death... dead... nothing... nada. So too....... with faith.

There are many trees that may look like an apple tree... and may even imitate an apple tree... but ultimately you will know it's an apple tree by it's fruit. Good works mean nothing, if it doesn't feed... and reproduce more faith, hence the "perfection" of faith.

I like apples

[godofthunder]

The error made by much of Christianity is when they set the following two scriptures against one another. There are many other scriptures used to justify the opposing views on the matter of "how is Salvation granted."

Ephesians 2:8-9

8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
James 2:17-20
17. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone .
18. Yea, a man may say , Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe , and tremble .
20. But wilt thou know , O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

I think it is unfortunate that people must set the words of the Apostles against one another. If we are saved by grace through faith, then what we need to establish is, what is meant by "faith"?

If faith without works is dead, then faith without works isn't faith. So while all should agree that mankind absolutely doesn not save himself, nor can he work his way to Heaven, we can readily establish that works are still important.

It seems reasonable to me. If you want to receive the free gift of the grace of God unto salvation, get off your butt and go do something good in this world!! Do what you can. Do your best. Stand up for what you know is right. Live it. Work to improve every day. Say your prayers, read your scriptures, constantly seek for ways to be better than you are right now. I don't think anyone worth calling Christian would say this is a bad idea or wrong. Just remember, in the end God has paid the price and continues to pay the price for wherever you fall short.

[Dave_n_Tenn]

I once heard it explained as ;faith and works are like a man with two legs.
"If you wanna walk, ya gotta have both".

The Amish have an ole saying.... "Praying is good... but praying doesn't plow the field".

[tgendreau]

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks!

[Oakback]

God will move mountains, but we need to bring a shovel.