Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You are wasting your writing skill on apologetics for a barbaric and evil concept of blood sacrifice of innocents to appease a wrathful (or holy) God that was born of primitive ignorance and superstition. No matter how much lipstick you put on an ugly pig, it is still an ugly pig!!!
And I believe you are simply not opening your mind to see the numerous reasons why God may have done it this way.
Lets look at the natural facts of creation: God made a world where Wolves naturally tear cute little bunny rabbits to shreds for a meal and we hunt as well...is that unloving? Would God be a vegetarian? What about those all those innocent plants vegetarians are murdering?! Violence in nature is usually much less humane than Torah animal sacrifices (most of which were eaten by the way) happens every day virtually by design (unless you believe there was no death before "the fall" that is). He gave the world enough free will to were people are tortured and killed on a daily basis and he sees and feels all of it. Given these facts about the world and its design, What makes you think for a second that he is not capable of creating a redemption system resulting in him painfully dying on a cross to prove his "no greater love" for us and to show us the ugliness and cost of sin?
And I believe you are simply not opening your mind to see the numerous reasons why God may have done it this way.
Lets look at the natural facts of creation: God made a world where Wolves naturally tear cute little bunny rabbits to shreds for a meal and we hunt as well...is that unloving? Would God be a vegetarian? What about those all those innocent plants vegetarians are murdering?! Violence in nature is usually much less humane than Torah animal sacrifices (most of which were eaten by the way) happens every day virtually by design (unless you believe there was no death before "the fall" that is). He gave the world enough free will to were people are tortured and killed on a daily basis and he sees and feels all of it. Given these facts about the world and its design, What makes you think for a second that he is not capable of creating a redemption system resulting in him painfully dying on a cross to prove his "no greater love" for us and to show us the ugliness and cost of sin?
SO it is futile to blame Hitler, since he was just carrying out god's will?
SO it is futile to blame Hitler, since he was just carrying out god's will?
You lost me...in fact I have not clue how these are even remotely logically, morally, or theologically equatable. Maybe I've just been writing too much and my brain is fried but you'll have to explain what you mean by that.
And I believe you are simply not opening your mind to see the numerous reasons why God may have done it this way.
Lets look at the natural facts of creation: God made a world where Wolves naturally tear cute little bunny rabbits to shreds for a meal and we hunt as well...is that unloving? Would God be a vegetarian? What about those all those innocent plants vegetarians are murdering?! Violence in nature is usually much less humane than Torah animal sacrifices (most of which were eaten by the way) happens every day virtually by design (unless you believe there was no death before "the fall" that is). He gave the world enough free will to were people are tortured and killed on a daily basis and he sees and feels all of it. Given these facts about the world and its design, What makes you think for a second that he is not capable of creating a redemption system resulting in him painfully dying on a cross to prove his "no greater love" for us and to show us the ugliness and cost of sin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
SO it is futile to blame Hitler, since he was just carrying out god's will?
If the vengeful acts carried out by the OT god of war can be understood by "opening your mind to see the numerous reasons God may have done it this way" then we can understand other acts of extreme violence as being "god's will"can we not?
God uses people to carry out his will (either good or evil)???
If the vengeful acts carried out by the OT god of war can be understood by "opening your mind to see the numerous reasons God may have done it this way" then we can understand other acts of extreme violence as being "god's will"can we not?
God uses people to carry out his will (either good or evil)???
The righteous do the will of God and all the prophets walk in His name.
If the vengeful acts carried out by the OT god of war can be understood by "opening your mind to see the numerous reasons God may have done it this way" then we can understand other acts of extreme violence as being "god's will"can we not?
God uses people to carry out his will (either good or evil)???
Oh ok. I've been primarily talking the big picture penal substitution theology. As far as the various apparent genocides carried out in the old testament, I'm still on the fence as to how much God really had to do with those because obviously those don't seem very loving in any fashion ;p According to some scholars, many of these situtations can be somewhat explained away by "Hebrew fight language" since when we look at some of these 'genocides' where God said to 'totally destroy the the cananites' for example, we see the cananites still around later in history as recorded in the bible. These scholars believe that when God says to totally destroy them, it would be kinda like him telling the Broncos to totally destroy the Raiders...which I wish happened last week lol. I have doubts that this explanation can explain away all the genocides so Mystic might be right about some of these.
Another possible or at least 'potential' why of 'justifying' these genocides would be to combine a conservative UR perspective with sort of a divine middle knowledge perspective. In such a scenario, God would know all the possible outcomes of every decision ever made and guided history in such a way that would bring about the messiah with as much free will as possible. Part of the problem with having a freewill system of existance is the difficulty of balancing a divine plan with it. In order to make this work, God may have had to order these genocides in order to set the historical stage to bring about the messiah who would then under a conservative UR model, Redeem everyone including those killed inthe genocide. It would have potentially been considered a loving thing to do if it prevented much sin from occuring and made a why for everyone of those people to eventually get into heaven...seems like a bit of a stretch for sure but it might make sense from a Creators perspective trying to balance free will with their plan to save humanity.
And all your rationale amounts to is "the end justifies the means." I don't believe that.
That's fine, but just remember that the perspective of a creator is very different from our own and I think from that perspective, this is much more complicated than simply the ends justifying the means. I can't imagine its an easy thing balancing a freewill system with a divine plan that has the best possible desired outcome.
You are wasting your writing skill on apologetics for a barbaric and evil concept of blood sacrifice of innocents to appease a wrathful (or holy) God that was born of primitive ignorance and superstition. No matter how much lipstick you put on an ugly pig, it is still an ugly pig!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrhockney
And I believe you are simply not opening your mind to see the numerous reasons why God may have done it this way.
Not really. You have boxed yourself into a corner because of your desire to credit the Omni's as qualities God MUST have to qualify to BE God. I do NOT. The Omni's are creations of human vanity and hubris that, along with the absurd 100% inerrant Bible have caused the major corruptions of Christ's Gospel and revelation about God's TRUE NATURE. You retain the ignorant and barbaric beliefs about God derived from the OT. I do NOT. The only motives and qualities of God are those taught and demonstrated by Christ.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Violence in nature is usually much less humane than Torah animal sacrifices (most of which were eaten by the way) happens every day virtually by design (unless you believe there was no death before "the fall" that is). He gave the world enough free will to were people are tortured and killed on a daily basis and he sees and feels all of it. Given these facts about the world and its design, What makes you think for a second that he is not capable of creating a redemption system resulting in him painfully dying on a cross to prove his "no greater love" for us and to show us the ugliness and cost of sin?
You lost me...in fact I have not clue how these are even remotely logically, morally, or theologically equatable. Maybe I've just been writing too much and my brain is fried but you'll have to explain what you mean by that.
lol. I have doubts that this explanation can explain away all the genocides so Mystic might be right about some of these.
