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What's really surprising to me is, up until this thread, I never knew that there was a wrong way to pray? Perhaps it's me and my Catholic Education, but I was always taught that prayer takes on many forms. Through talking to God, Rote Prayers, Music and Dance, so for Eusebius to come and tell me that Catholic prayers are useless, is shocking to me.
What is even more shocking is, that you, apparently have sort of connection to the Divine Creator in which you feel as though our prayers aren't meaningful.
Then, you go and throw in the sad fact that your nephews were molested by Roman Catholic priest, and try to tie that in with the point of prayer. Not only did you do this, you did it very sloppily too.
You stated at the beginning of this thread that this was a sincere question, then denied that you are being judgemental, yet, here we are, 11 pages later, and you're still trying to prove how us Catholics are wrong.
So I'm not really sure what else you're looking for. You got your answer, and if you feel like you didn't, it's because you weren't really trying to hear opinions and get an answer, you just wanted an answer that you wanted to hear.
Disrespecting those and their methods of prayers is horrendous. If someone tells you that they choose to pray 100 Hail Mary's and felt spirtually uplifted, then your job isn't to say that it was useless, but to accept people in their differences, whether you feel they are right or wrong, and move on with your life.
Last edited by chris123678; 12-29-2015 at 07:51 PM..
What's really surprising to me is, up until this thread, I never knew that there was a wrong way to pray? Perhaps it's me and my Catholic Education, but I was always taught that prayer takes on many forms. Through talking to God, Rote Prayers, Music and Dance, so for Eusebius to come and tell me that Catholic prayers are useless, is shocking to me.
What is even more shocking is, that you, apparently have sort of connection to the Divine Creator in which you feel as though our prayers aren't meaningful.
Then, you go and throw in the sad fact that your nephews were molested by Roman Catholic priest, and try to tie that in with the point of prayer. Not only did you do this, you did it very sloppily too.
You stated at the beginning of this thread that this was a sincere question, then denied that you are being judgemental, yet, here we are, 11 pages later, and you're still trying to prove how us Catholics are wrong.
So I'm not really sure what else you're looking for. You got your answer, and if you feel like you didn't, it's because you weren't really trying to here opinions and get an answer, you just wanted an answer that you wanted to here.
Disrespecting those and their methods of prayers is horrendous. If someone tells you that they choose to pray 100 Hail Mary's and felt spirtually uplifted, then your job isn't to say that it was useless, but to accept people in their differences, whether you feel they are right or wrong, and move on with your life.
Chris, good post and good points on what started as a "sincere question" and now seems to be a "holy war" of some sort!!! beware, the same comments made by our friend that you call "horrendous" (AND "shocking") I for similar reasons called "despicable"(especially for suddenly making a big switch from supposed deficiencies in Catholic prayer styles to connecting those alleged deficient Catholic prayer styles with the undoubtedly EVIL actions of certain people in the Church)----guessing he's not going to be any happier with your musings than mine, LOL and may God help us All (yes, "Eusie", too!!!)
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 12-29-2015 at 08:36 PM..
have no idea what DewDropInn was talking about in regards Baptist prayer except that he seemed either to find good things in both Baptist and Catholic prayer---or that he found both equally amusing---nothing surprising or especially despicable in that, just kind of quirky at worst and in point of fact that I could be "accused" of praying "like a Baptist" at times (praise God !!!).
He is a she who believes God doesn't care how we pray. Short. Long. Formal. Friendly. Standing. Sitting. In a closet. In a cathedral.
I've prayed in the 'hood and I've prayed in the Vatican. God has never, in all the decades I've been praying, said, "Dew! You're doing it all wrong and you need to change or I'm going to stop listening!!"
He is a she who believes God doesn't care how we pray. Short. Long. Formal. Friendly. Standing. Sitting. In a closet. In a cathedral.
I've prayed in the 'hood and I've prayed in the Vatican. God has never, in all the decades I've been praying, said, "Dew! You're doing it all wrong and you need to change or I'm going to stop listening!!"
I'd have noticed if He'd done that.
to be clear had no problems at all with your comments, amigo (and hope I made that clear in my response to our mutual friend---hopefully "quirky" is not necessarily fighting words, LOL), FWIW, I think God is both no respecter of persons (all are equally precious to Him) and as you mentioned not especially picky about how they pray or speak to Him or where the praying or speaking is done---He just wants to hear from His beloved children (if they care to make the effort to "call" Him for any and all reasons in any and all ways---thank God!!!).
peace.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 12-29-2015 at 09:32 PM..
So.... in addition to deciding which Catholic prayers are useless....you think you know when Catholic prayers get real.
Uh, huh.
Alert the Vatican. They'll want to know some guy on the internet has the inside scoop on which prayers get through to God.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know when someone is just reciting over and over again a canned prayer and when someone is actually conversing with their heavenly Father. It is not a matter of me having the "inside scoop" on anything. It is a matter of having an actual, loving, friendly relationship with our heavenly Father. What is so bad about that?
What's really surprising to me is, up until this thread, I never knew that there was a wrong way to pray? Perhaps it's me and my Catholic Education, but I was always taught that prayer takes on many forms. Through talking to God, Rote Prayers, Music and Dance, so for Eusebius to come and tell me that Catholic prayers are useless, is shocking to me.
What is even more shocking is, that you, apparently have sort of connection to the Divine Creator in which you feel as though our prayers aren't meaningful.
Do you think your heavenly Father wants to have a real, loving relationship with you in which you converse with Him what is really on your heart? Or do you think He just wants to hear some canned prayer over and over and over and over again?
Quote:
Then, you go and throw in the sad fact that your nephews were molested by Roman Catholic priest, and try to tie that in with the point of prayer. Not only did you do this, you did it very sloppily too.
No, there was no sloppiness to it at all. That is just your opinion. I wouldn't have brought up the fact that a person needs to really express their problems to God such as the case when my nephews were being raped by a Catholic priest and the hierarchy would do nothing about it whatsoever. God wants to hear from us from the heart. He wants to hear what is really affecting us. Canned prayers don't do that.
Quote:
You stated at the beginning of this thread that this was a sincere question, then denied that you are being judgemental, yet, here we are, 11 pages later, and you're still trying to prove how us Catholics are wrong.
That would have been fine if people just gave me their reply to my original question. But when they make posts condemning me for this or that, I think I have the right to defend myself against such attacks.
Quote:
So I'm not really sure what else you're looking for. You got your answer, and if you feel like you didn't, it's because you weren't really trying to hear opinions and get an answer, you just wanted an answer that you wanted to hear.
Actually my original post was such that it was posited as a simple question concerning two people and how they prayed and I asked "what do you think of this?" I was willing to hear opinions. But when it degraded into all manner of false accusations, I felt obligated to respond.
Quote:
Disrespecting those and their methods of prayers is horrendous. If someone tells you that they choose to pray 100 Hail Mary's and felt spirtually uplifted, then your job isn't to say that it was useless, but to accept people in their differences, whether you feel they are right or wrong, and move on with your life.
What you call "disrespecting" is what I call "open for debate." It is open for debate to consider the prayer of my Catholic sister and the prayer of her Baptist son-in-law. I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but the world does not revolve around you. Not everyone is going to agree with you. And if one disagrees with you, it is not out of disrespect.
They should have prayed in whatever way the heart moved them.
If the heart moves someone to pray one hundred Our Fathers, or Hail Mary's then so be it.
And if you actually, really think that doing such in praying a hundred Our Fathers or a hundred Hail Marys is actually, really conversing with their heavenly Father, then so be it. It just seems rather shallow to me. It is not telling our heavenly Father what is really bugging us. It is a form of magic. If I pray this prayer 100 times, something magic will happen. Maybe God will get tired of me praying this same prayer over and over and over again and He will crack and give me what I want just to shut me up?
And if you actually, really think that doing such in praying a hundred Our Fathers or a hundred Hail Marys is actually, really conversing with their heavenly Father, then so be it. It just seems rather shallow to me. It is not telling our heavenly Father what is really bugging us. It is a form of magic. If I pray this prayer 100 times, something magic will happen. Maybe God will get tired of me praying this same prayer over and over and over again and He will crack and give me what I want just to shut me up?
NOBODY (except you) has made that claim about 100's of ANY prayer has intrinsic effect (magical or otherwise) or value with God. Instead the counter point has been made that ANY kind of prayer said once or a zillion times has value IF (and ONLY if) it is made in SINCERE faith, hope, and love. frankly, you have consistently REFUSED to engage with or discuss that critically important "if"!!!
you seem to work from the premise that ANY memorized or formalized or set prayer that may be repeated is ipso facto wrong (according to your interpretation of some verses in Matthew) and you consistently refuse to engage with other scriptures that DO talk about "repeated" prayer favorably (AGAIN look at the REPEATED prayer of praise from the "four living creatures" in Revelations).
FWIW, you have not responded to the potential logical conundrum from the scripture in Matthew that says God ALREADY knows what we need before we say it and thus any prayer is potentially repetition to God in the first place---God to us; "stop telling me what I already know, don't be such a nudge already!!!" (don't think either of us really believe that but that's what can happen when you follow a premise to it's "logical" conclusion.)
you seem to believe that saying certain set prayers ("rote" or otherwise) is the ONLY way that most Catholics pray or in fact are ordered/commanded to pray that way by the Pope and all his priests and the counter response has been a consistent NO from us---especially in their private prayers, Catholics are exhorted to pray early and often in ANY way they choose---- Catholics have complete "freedom" in how they are "allowed" to speak to their almighty God and Father!!! Catholics do NOT condemn ANYONE"S prayer life, style, or content as long as it is based on SINCERE faith, hope, and love--- sadly we always seem to somehow loose you at the "sincere" part and that's probably the most important point at all!!!
finally, late in the discussion you have decided to use the HORRIFIC sins of SOME members of the church to somehow invalidate the prayers of ALL the members---but have given absolutely NO PROOF to connect the sinful behavior of those evil men with how they (or any other Catholic) prays to or has a relationship with God in any way. at the same time you didn't bother to also mention the fact that certain Evangelical ministers have ALSO sinned despite likely SUPPOSEDLY having a prayer/talk to the Father that you might more likely advocate. don't you think it's not how we pray that leads us to sin but instead that our common human nature may lead us to sin in either case so it's neither a catholic or an evangelical failing but instead a sad possibility for ANYONE?
there is certainly room for reasoned AND charitable discussion of both differences and similarities in how each of us individually and as members of a faith community/church approach God our common Father in praise, petition, and just plain "talk' between that loving Father and his beloved child---but SADLY this whole thread has not done so based on the initial premises of you/good and us/bad (OR vice-versa) with "sincere discussion" turning into a kind of "holy war" with basically one telling the other, "REPENT, you ARE completely WRONG" and no discussion really gets very far that way, sad to say.
perhaps ultimately at least some times discussions like these can be likened to the dispute between the Samaritans and the Jews as to where God was supposed to be worshipped---at Jerusalem or Mt. Gorshem (think that's the name)---Jesus' answer to that was that it doesn't matter where---ONLY that we worship "in spirit and in truth" and that's what really counts. NONE of us (despite our various denominational and doctrinal "certainties") can comprehend or control the love and mercy of God and His constant/"repetitive" desire to love and forgive His children no matter how they come to him IF they are sincere in trying to conform their lives to His and accepting His grace to continue doing so.
in peace.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 12-30-2015 at 10:18 AM..
I do not think you are going to work out your obvious issues with your sister on a public board. Your overwhelming resentment and anger about the molestation of your nephews is understandable. It is still no reason to air your sibling anger here.
You should take it to a qualified secular therapist. Over time, a good therapist would invite your family to a session or two. The length of your therapy depends on the depth of your issues, and if you do the work required to gain balance.
I hope your beautiful nephews were, or are in therapy along with their parents.
to be clear had no problems at all with your comments, amigo (and hope I made that clear in my response to our mutual friend---hopefully "quirky" is not necessarily fighting words, LOL), FWIW, I think God is both no respecter of persons (all are equally precious to Him) and as you mentioned not especially picky about how they pray or speak to Him or where the praying or speaking is done---He just wants to hear from His beloved children (if they care to make the effort to "call" Him for any and all reasons in any and all ways---thank God!!!).
peace.
No worries, george. I knew what you meant and I've appreciated your posts on this thread. In fact, I enjoy all of your posts. I just thought that was as good a place as any to post my beliefs about prayer.
p.s. I consider 'quirky' a compliment.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 12-30-2015 at 09:32 AM..
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, the same comments made by our friend that you call "horrendous" (AND "shocking") I for similar reasons called "despicable"(especially for suddenly making a big switch from supposed deficiencies in Catholic prayer styles to connecting those alleged deficient Catholic prayer styles with the undoubtedly EVIL actions of certain people in the Church)----guessing he's not going to be any happier with your musings than mine, LOL and may God help us All (yes, "Eusie", too!!!)
I just thought that was as good a place as any to post my beliefs about prayer.
