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Where was the first word regarding humans needing a messiah...and
was it necessary, according to the
Bible for this messiah to die?
Where did it say first that man needed 'saving'?
Why? I mean really.
I know I'm being lazy and don't want to do the research.
Where was the first word regarding humans needing a messiah...and
was it necessary, according to the
Bible for this messiah to die?
Where did it say first that man needed 'saving'?
Why? I mean really.
I know I'm being lazy and don't want to do the research.
Wikipedia
Saoshyant
Saoshyant (Avestan: Saoš́iiaṇt̰, IPA: [sɒːʃjʌnt] is a figure in Zoroastrianism who brings about the Frashokereti or final renovation of the world. The name literally means "one who brings benefit" in Avestan and is also used as a common noun.
In scripture
In the Gathas, the most sacred hymns of Zoroastrianism, believed to have been composed by Zoroaster himself, the term is used to refer to the prophet's own mission and to his community of followers, who "bring benefit" to humanity. Saoshyant may have been a term originally applied to Zoroaster himself (e.g. Yasna 46.3
In tradition
"Already alluded to in scripture (e.g. Yasht 19.88-96, see above), but only properly developed in the 9th-12th century texts, is the role of the Saoshyant during the final renovation. In these Middle Persian texts, the name is rendered Sōshans.
Zoroastrian tradition envisions three future saviors, one for the end of each thousand-year period that comprise the last 3,000 years of the world. All three will be born of maidens, conceived while their mothers bathed in a lake that miraculously preserved the seed of the prophet Zoroaster himself. The first will be named Hushedar, the second Hushedarmah] and the third will be the Saoshyant, who will lead humanity in the final battle against falsehood."
"Eventually, Ahura Mazda will triumph, and his agent Saoshyant will resurrect the dead, whose bodies will be restored to eternal perfection, and whose souls will be cleansed and reunited with God. Time will then end, and asha and immortality will thereafter be everlasting." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saoshyant
The precise date of the founding of Zoroastrianism is uncertain. An approximate date of 1200-1500 BCE has been established through archaeological evidence and linguistic comparisons with the Hindu text, the Rig Veda. http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religi...oaster_1.shtml
"Although a definite borrowing is still impossible to prove, the resemblances between Zoroasterianism and Judaism are numerous and probably took shape during the exile. First of all the figure of Satan, originally a servant of God appointed by Him as His prosecutor, came more and more to resemble Ahriman, the enemy of God. Secondly,the figure of the Messiah, originally a future king of Israel who would save his people from oppression evolved,in Deutro-Isaiah for instance, into a universal Savior very similar to the Iranian Saoshant(Savior). Thirdly, the entities that came to surround Yahweh, such as His wisdom and His spirit are comparable to the arch angels escorting Ahura Mazda; other points of comparison include the doctrine of the millenia; the Last Judgement; the heavenly book in which human actions are inscribed; the resurrection, the final transformation of the Earth; paradise of Heaven on Earth or in Heaven. Christianity seems to owe many features to Iran over and above those inherited from Judaism. Among others are probably the belief in guardian angels, resurrection and the heavenly journey of the soul."(Encyclopedia Americana,"Zoroasterianism"pp.813-815).
Last edited by Tired of the Nonsense; 02-03-2016 at 11:39 PM..
Wikipedia
Saoshyant
Saoshyant (Avestan: Saoš́iiaṇt̰, IPA: [sɒːʃjʌnt] is a figure in Zoroastrianism who brings about the Frashokereti or final renovation of the world. The name literally means "one who brings benefit" in Avestan and is also used as a common noun.
In scripture
In the Gathas, the most sacred hymns of Zoroastrianism, believed to have been composed by Zoroaster himself, the term is used to refer to the prophet's own mission and to his community of followers, who "bring benefit" to humanity. Saoshyant may have been a term originally applied to Zoroaster himself (e.g. Yasna 46.3
In tradition
"Already alluded to in scripture (e.g. Yasht 19.88-96, see above), but only properly developed in the 9th-12th century texts, is the role of the Saoshyant during the final renovation. In these Middle Persian texts, the name is rendered Sōshans.
Zoroastrian tradition envisions three future saviors, one for the end of each thousand-year period that comprise the last 3,000 years of the world. All three will be born of maidens, conceived while their mothers bathed in a lake that miraculously preserved the seed of the prophet Zoroaster himself. The first will be named Hushedar, the second Hushedarmah] and the third will be the Saoshyant, who will lead humanity in the final battle against falsehood."
"Eventually, Ahura Mazda will triumph, and his agent Saoshyant will resurrect the dead, whose bodies will be restored to eternal perfection, and whose souls will be cleansed and reunited with God. Time will then end, and asha and immortality will thereafter be everlasting." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saoshyant
The precise date of the founding of Zoroastrianism is uncertain. An approximate date of 1200-1500 BCE has been established through archaeological evidence and linguistic comparisons with the Hindu text, the Rig Veda. BBC - Religions - Zoroastrian: Zoroaster
"Although a definite borrowing is still impossible to prove, the resemblances between Zoroasterianism and Judaism are numerous and probably took shape during the exile. First of all the figure of Satan, originally a servant of God appointed by Him as His prosecutor, came more and more to resemble Ahriman, the enemy of God. Secondly,the figure of the Messiah, originally a future king of Israel who would save his people from oppression evolved,in Deutro-Isaiah for instance, into a universal Savior very similar to the Iranian Saoshant(Savior). Thirdly, the entities that came to surround Yahweh, such as His wisdom and His spirit are comparable to the arch angels escorting Ahura Mazda; other points of comparison include the doctrine of the millenia; the Last Judgement; the heavenly book in which human actions are inscribed; the resurrection, the final transformation of the Earth; paradise of Heaven on Earth or in Heaven. Christianity seems to owe many features to Iran over and above those inherited from Judaism. Among others are probably the belief in guardian angels, resurrection and the heavenly journey of the soul."(Encyclopedia Americana,"Zoroasterianism"pp.813-815).
And Paul, being the devilishly clever sycophant that he was, was very intimate with the pagan religions of his day and borrowed religiously from them to construct his version of what a messiah should be all about. Once he'd formulated his conception of Jesus as Messiah, borrowing heavily from Zoroastrianism and other pagan cults, he wrote feverishly to all his little churches around the Mediterranean explaining his opinion of why Jesus was the Messiah who died and rose for our sins. Once the gospels writers picked up on all this and wrote their own accounts mimicking Paul the snowball was set to careen down the mountain. Needless to say, his theories were a rousing success for 2000 years.
And Paul, being the devilishly clever sycophant that he was, was very intimate with the pagan religions of his day and borrowed religiously from them to construct his version of what a messiah should be all about. Once he'd formulated his conception of Jesus as Messiah, borrowing heavily from Zoroastrianism and other pagan cults, he wrote feverishly to all his little churches around the Mediterranean explaining his opinion of why Jesus was the Messiah who died and rose for our sins. Once the gospels writers picked up on all this and wrote their own accounts mimicking Paul the snowball was set to careen down the mountain. Needless to say, his theories were a rousing success for 2000 years.
Paul was a Pharisees (Parsi/Farsi; Persian), the son of a Pharisees. Naturally he had been trained in the various beliefs that the Pharisees espoused.
Acts.23
[6] But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
In Isaiah 53 God makes His plan for Jesus to pour out His soul onto death to be one with God ....... Then in Isaiah 43:9-11.......God declares that the servant Jesus to come is Him, and not another Gods ,................... where as Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and not to be glorified ...... The idea of the messiah was Adam who failed , where God then years later , as God sent himself through Jesus to be a man in the earth and equal those who were to be redeemed ...... See the essence of God made it hard for God to come directly where He needed one Like Jesus to fulfill this plan of man for His family for God
In Isaiah 53 God makes His plan for Jesus to pour out His soul onto death to be one with God ....... Then in Isaiah 43:9-11.......God declares that the servant Jesus to come is Him, and not another Gods ,................... where as Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and not to be glorified ...... The idea of the messiah was Adam who failed , where God then years later , as God sent himself through Jesus to be a man in the earth and equal those who were to be redeemed ...... See the essence of God made it hard for God to come directly where He needed one Like Jesus to fulfill this plan of man for His family for God
If you can show that the word "Jesus" appears in Isaiah even once, then I will concede this entire point to you.
In Isaiah 53 God makes His plan for Jesus to pour out His soul onto death to be one with God ....... Then in Isaiah 43:9-11.......God declares that the servant Jesus to come is Him, and not another Gods ,................... where as Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and not to be glorified ...... The idea of the messiah was Adam who failed , where God then years later , as God sent himself through Jesus to be a man in the earth and equal those who were to be redeemed ...... See the essence of God made it hard for God to come directly where He needed one Like Jesus to fulfill this plan of man for His family for God
And if one were open to the truth, it would be very easily read that the sin offering established by God in the OT was to point to Jesus ... then there is Jesus who said:
"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
then if one were to really really use their efforts wantoning to see the truth rather than to continue in having enmity for the truth and for those who believe the truth, one could read the first promise of God's plan for a Messiah when it was said:
"And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
And if one were open to the truth, it would be very easily read that the sin offering established by God in the OT was to point to Jesus ... then there is Jesus who said:
"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
then if one were to really really use their efforts wantoning to see the truth rather than to continue in having enmity for the truth and for those who believe the truth, one could read the first promise of God's plan for a Messiah when it was said:
"And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
Yes, the Jewish scriptures clearly point to Jesus as the messiah. Most Jews agree.
Then why does god say that he doesnt require a sacrifice? God NEVER wanted his son to die.
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