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How should someone who literally interprets the bible look at it? You are suggesting a metaphorical perspective. So if everything is metaphorical or allegorical, then it becomes a interpretation issue, and not an orthodox perspective.
There was nothing metaphorical or allegorical about Jesus' sacrifice. It was literal, it was real. What I am telling you quite simply is that that literal sacrifice of Jesus was not an exact analogy of the animal sacrifices which were mere shadows of Jesus' sacrifice. This isn't difficult to understand. The Levitical sacrifices simply focused Israel's attention on the future sacrifice of Jesus.
How should someone who literally interprets the Bible look at it, you ask? They should look at it exactly as I have explained it.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
There was nothing metaphorical or allegorical about Jesus' sacrifice. It was literal, it was real. What I am telling you quite simply is that that literal sacrifice of Jesus was not an exact analogy of the animal sacrifices which were mere shadows of Jesus' sacrifice. This isn't difficult to understand. The Levitical sacrifices simply focused Israel's attention on the future sacrifice of Jesus.
How should someone who literally interprets the Bible look at it, you ask? They should look at it exactly as I have explained it.
Why would the literal understanding only start with the NT, and not the whole Bible? And it is not the most humble way of speaking to suggest that only your explanation is the one that needs to be considered. The prophesies were quiet clear, yet your suggesting they were only suggestions. That is not the way most Christians would understand it.
What do you NOT comprehend about the ancestral Jews being ignorant, barbaric savages, cupper??? How on earth could they be relied upon to accurately know what God actually wanted?? That is also why they missed Jesus. In their ignorance, they were looking for the wrong kind of Messiah!
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Originally Posted by cupper3
I have no problem understanding that we are dealing with an unsophisticated tribe, but that is not the issue. The story we keep hearing is how the prophesies of the OT are clear, and as such need to be fulfilled for them to be validated.
But that means fulfilled in the manner that THEY understood what they meant, not what 21st-century individuals view it as, or for that matter, 4-century ones. What you are suggesting is that the entire OT be disregarded and not considered in the whole Jesus story.
Not at all. The way you are advocating they be interpreted (i.e., predictively according to what the Jews expected) is incorrect. That is Divination and expressly prohibited. Prophecy is post hoc and only validated in retrospect upon investigation of what has actually happened. That is also its power and persuasiveness. That someone 800 years before Christ was born could predict what would happen to Him and what His impact would be on the world for the next 2000 years is powerful stuff.
What do you NOT comprehend about the ancestral Jews being ignorant, barbaric savages, cupper??? How on earth could they be relied upon to accurately know what God actually wanted?? That is also why they missed Jesus. In their ignorance, they were looking for the wrong kind of Messiah!
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Originally Posted by MoonBeam33
Gee Mystic, are all of our ancestors from this time ignorant, barbaric, savages, or just the Jews? Your anti-Semitism might be showing just a little bit.
Yes, MB, ALL our ancestors were ignorant, barbaric savages. Cuipper specifically asked about the ancestral Jews. I have no anti-Semitism. I have no anti-anything except ignorance, superstition, and religion-based bigotry.
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And again, for the thousandth time, Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. They weren't looking for the "wrong kind" of Messiah, they knew exactly what they were looking for.
But they were wrong. It wasn't who God intended to send them. They were using their expectations for a worldly leader and improperly used the scriptures as Divination and prediction. The prophecies are revealed and validated after-the-fact. The actual history reveals what was prophesied, NOT the expectations of the Jews. They are still using them as Divination and are still waiting for their Messiah, but He has already come and fulfilled the ACTUAL prophecies, not the ones they THINK apply.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-30-2016 at 11:29 PM..
And again, for the thousandth time, Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. They weren't looking for the "wrong kind" of Messiah, they knew exactly what they were looking for.
Spot on MB...but you have to realise that the 'Christians' will decide who the Jewish messiah is....not the Jews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3
There are arguably scriptures about the prophecies of Jesus' death from the old Testament.
However, every successful sacrifice in the Old Testament was a burnt offering, and the Hebrew word used to describe the burnt offerings literally meant, to be carried away, up in smoke. There was literally nothing left, so why would Jesus' resurrection after his death not have negated the sacrifice. For it to count, according to Old Testament law, there should be nothing left but ashes.
A conundrum?
What I would like to know is, just how does 'dying' when you know you are going to come back with added benefits three days later, qualify as a sacrifice??
Yes, MB, ALL our ancestors were ignorant, barbaric savages. Cuipper specifically asked about the ancestral Jews. I have no anti-Semitism. I have no anti-anything except ignorance, superstition, and religion-based bigotry.
But they were wrong. It wasn't who God intended to send them. They were using their expectations for a worldly leader and improperly used the scriptures as Divination and prediction. The prophecies are revealed and validated after-the-fact. The actual history reveals what was prophesied, NOT the expectations of the Jews. They are still using them as Divination and are still waiting for their Messiah, but He has already come and fulfilled the ACTUAL prophecies, not the ones they THINK apply.
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Originally Posted by Rafius
Spot on MB...but you have to realise that the 'Christians' will decide who the Jewish messiah is....not the Jews.
Actually God decided and it was Jesus, NOT who the Jews expected.
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What I would like to know is, just how does 'dying' when you know you are going to come back with added benefits three days later, qualify as a sacrifice??
IT doesn't. Enduring scourging and crucifixion at the hands of our brutal and savage ancestors while loving them to reveal God's TRUE NATURE WAS.
Actually God decided and it was Jesus, NOT who the Jews expected.
I'll take the word of the Jews thanks. It's their prophecy after all.
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IT doesn't. Enduring scourging and crucifixion at the hands of our brutal and savage ancestors while loving them to reveal God's TRUE NATURE WAS.
Pfffft! Go and have a chat with one of the hundreds of thousands of men that spent years in Japanese prison camps if you want to know about torture, suffering and sacrifice. Your Jesus didn't even come close old chap (assuming for the sake of discussion that he actually lived...which I don't believe). There are people today suffering far more than your Jesus did...every day!
Actually God decided and it was Jesus, NOT who the Jews expected.IT doesn't. Enduring scourging and crucifixion at the hands of our brutal and savage ancestors while loving them to reveal God's TRUE NATURE WAS.
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Originally Posted by Rafius
I'll take the word of the Jews thanks. It's their prophecy after all.
No, that is their Divination which is the opposite of prophecy. That is why they are confused.
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Pfffft! Go and have a chat with one of the hundreds of thousands of men that spent years in Japanese prison camps if you want to know about torture, suffering and sacrifice. Your Jesus didn't even come close old chap (assuming for the sake of discussion that he actually lived...which I don't believe). There are people today suffering far more than your Jesus did...every day!
I assume you are implying they actually loved their tormentors???
No, that is their Divination which is the opposite of prophecy. That is why they are confused.
They are not confused old boy. It's their very own prophecy...and then along comes Christianity and insists that they have it wrong! LOL!
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I assume you are implying they actually loved their tormentors???
There are many that are said to have forgiven them. Anyway, it is no 'sacrifice' when you know that you will be coming back with benefits. There are many, many thousands that have given their lives for their love of others whilst knowing that they will never again see the light of day....THAT is a 'sacrifice'.
Jesus death was a offense against God , as an innocent man murdered by people who had a sin manipulated by the devil which was a devalue of envy ................. So in God justice God gave the name of Jesus all the authority of God the creator were if man rejected the devil and his manipulation and turn to side with Jesus they the justice of God men sin would be forgiven and then saved to God , which bring life and eternal protection ............................In the animal sacrifices of the burnt offering the sins would be forgiven by God and carried away ,........... but if the people just continued to sin then the sacrifices of the burnt offering would be useless as the devil would come right back and claim curses in the spirit ........., as this burn offering was a reflection shadow of Jesus Christ to come , and people would be eternally judged then when Jesus came
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