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Old 03-07-2008, 04:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post

Knowing something exists and understanding that something are two different things.

--And the capacity to validate one's own experience by being able to put it in some sort of context is another!

Disjointed notes that illicit confusion remind June of what orchestras sound like when they are warming up before a symphony. (Think about it!)

But I hear what you're saying...

Take gentle care.
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Old 03-07-2008, 04:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
--And the capacity to validate one's own experience by being able to put it in some sort of context is another!
So you have to be able to put something you experience into some context to confirm it as reality?

How do you put 'love' into context before you've experienced love and when you do experience love, don't you just kinda go 'Doh! That's what love is!'

And how would you try and verbalize an experience like love?

How would you even begin to try and reduce it to words?

Don't you think God and/or the instrument of His power (the Holy Spirit) would be infinitely more difficult to explain or place in context than a human emotion like love?

So when you feel the tug, conviction, and power of the Holy Spirit and you know that it's something you can't quite explain, then isn't that, in fact, the context? You can then slap your forehead and say 'Doh! That's what God's power feels like!'
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Old 03-07-2008, 04:28 PM
 
Location: southern california
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thanks for asking
holy spirit is the opposite of that big empty you got inside when you dont believe in anything and everything you look at looks like ..............
its that gut feeling you are guna make it despite the outward appearance. its when everybody around you is lookin mightly smug and knowing
you are goin down but you know inside god is standing right next to you and you make it and their heads droop and they are downcast. thats holy spirit.
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Old 03-07-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post



So you have to be able to put something you experience into some context to confirm it as reality?



No.

I have to validate my own experience as reality. It's my "experience." It's real, but lacks context.

(Go back to the analogy of the orchestra warming up. There is no "context" as there is not, as yet, a "symphony.")

But there is validation of the experience of that reality.
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Old 03-07-2008, 05:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post



So when...you know that it's something you can't quite explain, then isn't that, in fact, the context?

BINGO!



You really are a very good music teacher.


Take gentle care!
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
No.

I have to validate my own experience as reality. It's my "experience." It's real, but lacks context.

(Go back to the analogy of the orchestra warming up. There is no "context" as there is not, as yet, a "symphony.")

But there is validation of the experience of that reality.
I know what your saying about the orchestra warming up. It is the opposite of stillness and sweet peace...In my world its like building to many houses at one time, orchestrated chaos...not joyfull.
Freedom has to keep reminding himself to not labor for things that perish, and to abandon wants for the bliss of needs.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post

I know what your saying about the orchestra warming up. It is the opposite of stillness and sweet peace...
But it's in the process of getting there...

Take gentle care.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:37 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,654,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
But it's in the process of getting there...

Take gentle care.
Yes and Amen!
Each individual has different levels of experience and understanding to bring into the context. The Holy Spirit brings the harmony when we are all together even though each one is at a different places of understanding.
It becomes a beautiful sound!!

Blessings
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:03 AM
 
7,991 posts, read 12,217,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
I think I understand June's confusion...She is trying very hard to undersatand something that is unknown to her..She is trying to understand concepts and ideas that really cannot be proven by well meaning words coming from men or books. I think she is trying to grab hold of and understand what she knows and understands as consciousness, unconsciousness as conditions of the natural body functions that can determin the decision making in our lives..She does understand that we have choices in this life and that hopefully we would choose the best choice...She is having difficulty relating these very human and natural functions as being controlled or attributed to an invisible, multipersonalitied, omnipresent, omnipotent god who is described in some "religions" as a loving parent who rewards beyond imagination or who doles out unthinkable torture on his children if they don't follow the rules.

June is having trouble seeing through the smoke screen that "religion" has put between herself and her creator..June is trying to see and understand something that she may feel, but cannot understand, because she can only see the smoke screen, when she is trying to see what is on the other side of it..

IMO, we have the ability to clear that smoke screen ourselves...In my case I felt a hand (a connection to the source) grasp mine through the smoke to guide me through it..

June has been pondering this alot.

I think June differentiates between "experience" and "context."

You all have a known context. You have a frame of reference, (context) by which you can understand and self validate. June does not. June therefore is not even sure to what extent her "experience" is even valid, except in the sense that she perhaps remains open to it. Validating one's own reality within an unknown context is hard. It's like being in a state of suspended animation, and there is no place to land.

I honestly appreciate everyone's input, help, and patience in helping June try to understand what/who the holy spirit is. But I still can't "get it." That's why I said that there are some things that are perhaps beyond June's comprehension. While I do understand love, simplicity, silence, stillness, etc., the difficulty is in making the connection between all those things, and attributing them to "holy spirit." It is the differentiation between the orchestra warming up, and one's ability to actually get to the point of listening long enough to hear the symphony. That's the hard part. Someone who was (metaphor here, people) deaf and suddenly began to hear music wouldn't have a clue as to what they were hearing.

While I understand on an intellectual level what people mean when saying "It requires faith," on a more personal level, in lacking any frame of reference, it makes no sense to me at all. I just don't get it...

It's a free fall.


Taking gentle care.
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:15 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,654,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June has been pondering this alot.

I think June differentiates between "experience" and "context."

You all have a known context. You have a frame of reference, (context) by which you can understand and self validate. June does not. June therefore is not even sure to what extent her "experience" is even valid, except in the sense that she perhaps remains open to it. Validating one's own reality within an unknown context is hard. It's like being in a state of suspended animation, and there is no place to land.

I honestly appreciate everyone's input, help, and patience in helping June try to understand what/who the holy spirit is. But I still can't "get it." That's why I said that there are some things that are perhaps beyond June's comprehension. While I do understand love, simplicity, silence, stillness, etc., the difficulty is in making the connection between all those things, and attributing them to "holy spirit." It is the differentiation between the orchestra warming up, and one's ability to actually get to the point of listening long enough to hear the symphony. That's the hard part. Someone who was (metaphor here, people) deaf and suddenly began to hear music wouldn't have a clue as to what they were hearing.

While I understand on an intellectual level what people mean when saying "It requires faith," on a more personal level, in lacking any frame of reference, it makes no sense to me at all. I just don't get it...

It's a free fall.


Taking gentle care.
The desire to know is the beginning! Even though one doesn't get it!

Blessings
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