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As indicated at Matthew 26:41, Jesus kindly expressed his understanding of human weaknesses.* In fact, the entire Bible record clearly establishes that both God and Jesus are indeed merciful toward humans. (Psalm 103:8, 9) But can we expect God to ignore all our defects?
Understood, but this thread is (apparently) about losing salvation, not about God ignoring/not ignoring our weaknesses.
That which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of spirit is spirit. Righteousness is a free gift.
blessings,
- Byron
The most frequent objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation are: (1) what about those who are Christians and continually live an immoral lifestyle? – and – (2) what about those who are Christians but later reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these two objections is the assumption “are Christians.” (1) The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a continually immoral lifestyle (1 John 3:6). (2) The Bible declares that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he/she never truly was a Christian (1 John 2:19).
No, a Christian cannot lose salvation. Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28-29). God is both willing and able to guarantee and maintain the salvation He has given us. Jude 24-25, “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy - to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
While I agree with some of the points brought here, the object of this thread, as I think I mentioned, was not to just focus on eternal security. I believe that one proof of true interpretation of doctrine is: How is it affecting a Christian's life, and how does it line up and work together with the rest of the Bible? Is the practice effective? And that is why I brought up the importance placed on the purity of the church as practiced by the early believers.
Those of you who do believe in eternal security (or any of the rest of us).. how are we finding the doctines and instructions mentioned in the OP to work effectively in modern times?
My purpose in this thread is not to inflame, or divide... just to make us all look a little deeper...
When I made the post quoted in the OP on another thread, I was sharing an experience with the intention of pointing out that it's easy to assume the worst about the beliefs of others. I also remember some folks saying, "Won't they be surprised on judgment day". They were assuming the eternal security believers were using their "perceived" security as an occassion for the flesh.
When I got to know those who really do believe this way, I learned that those preconcieved notions were not true (as far as I can tell - God only knows).
Here is some more of my original post that may be relevant to this topic. Again, my point was about perceptions and assumptions about the beliefs of others rather than to debate eternal security.
Quote:
I had assumed that what I heard in the other denomination about Baptists was true until I got to know them better. It was actually through a friend that I started attending there, otherwise I would not likely have considered it at all.
Very recently I changed my mind about the whole doctrine of eternal torment. What that means for me is that I disagree with the mainstream doctrine regarding the nature and duration of the lake of fire. What it does NOT mean to me is that I have license to sin. I continue to serve Him because I love Him.
Ironically, I left the former church because there were a lot of liberal behaviors there that I did not want my children to adopt. The eternal security folks at my current church avoid these things. They do not want to abuse God’s grace and neither do I.
If you all want to debate eternal security, have at it I'll be on another thread reading about the eventual resoration of all
When I made the post quoted in the OP on another thread, I was sharing an experience with the intention of pointing out that it's easy to assume the worst about the beliefs of others. I also remember some folks saying, "Won't they be surprised on judgment day". They were assuming the eternal security believers were using their "perceived" security as an occassion for the flesh.
When I got to know those who really do believe this way, I learned that those preconcieved notions were not true (as far as I can tell - God only knows).
Here is some more of my original post that may be relevant to this topic. Again, my point was about perceptions and assumptions about the beliefs of others rather than to debate eternal security.
Yes brad.. and I think if you have read my OP you will see that this this is how I took your post.. and was agreeing, that I have had some of the same misconceptions. Thanks for clarifying, tho!
This is a good thread and I think I understand the point you're making, cg81.
I personally am still working through what exactly I believe regarding the steadfastness of one's salvation, but I think I believe both.
In other words, I don't believe I can be snatched from the Father's hand, but I do believe I can jump.
However, as you've said, I don't think that's really what this thread is about.
If I'm in tune with you, this thread is about accountability. Confession. Exhortation. Edification. Restoration. Purification.
In other words, we have taken the wonderful gift of a secure Hope and Future, and perverted it to the point where what's permitted in the church looks just like what we condemn in the world.
Divorce rate--same or higher than secular rates.
Pornography participation--same or higher than secular rates
Adultery, drug use, etc--take your pic. The professing Christians don't look very different than the professing non-Christians.
It's a valid point.
The corrective scripture and how to address a brother are some of the most widely ignored scriptures in the canon, in my opinion. Why? They are the hardest.
And now we've trained the church member to reply to a rebuke with "Who are you to judge!?" To which the honest biblical response would be "I'm your Christian Brother, that's who I am, and the Word we profess to believe tells me to do this. I love you. I want the best for you!"
Good thread man.
I need to think on this some more.
Accountability. Very very hard, yet just what we(I) need.
Yes brad.. and I think if you have read my OP you will see that this this is how I took your post.. and was agreeing, that I have had some of the same misconceptions. Thanks for clarifying, tho!
I knew you did. It took a tangent after you started it.
Have a great day cg81!
bradm
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