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Everything about the crosses and all that "sick garbage" had nothing to do with Bill's experience; that was Mary K. Baxter's, and her experience leaves me quite skeptical. From what you said about "everything he said not being biblical" I can see that you neither read his book, nor do you know the Bible that well. Which is fine, I'm just noting the obvious. His experience is similar to that of biblical figures such as Jonah, Paul, and others in the Word and warnings of hell and its location are sprinkled throughout the entire Bible.
I did not read his book but he tells his story on youtube and mentions the eternal crucifixions there. Jonah warns about 'hell'? Not much to warn about since everyone goes to the grave (Sheol) when they die. In all the apostolic evangelizing (by Peter, Paul or any other apostle) recorded in scripture, there is no mention of Gehenna or Hades (Sheol) in their messages. Why do you think that is?
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Originally Posted by xanthre
Another point of view, if you knew and understood the Bible, you would know that Christians are protected from uninvited demonic influence and torment. The only possible way for Bill to actually have a true experience like that would be if God purposed it for His glory. Bill is an average guy who has made no financial benefit from this and if you know the Bible, you know that God uses the foolish to confound the wise, He qualifies the called, not calls the qualified.
I never questioned Bill's status or integrity, just stated that his experience was not from God.
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Originally Posted by xanthre
Yes there are demons in Hell, and if you seriously wanna debate this, I'll get all the biblical support for my side if you will for yours. We don't even have to talk about Bill's experience if you don't want.
Look, I'm not super educated either - but I have studied scripture and have known God for 31 years. The fact that you would use the "H" word at all indicates some lack of knowledge since Sheol/Hades are one thing, Gehenna is something different and Tartarus is something different and the lake of fire something different still.
I guess if you want to post your 'support' for demons in, mmmmm... one of the "H's" somewhere - have at it
You did not say his experience wasn't from God, you said he was 'demonically inspired' which was the other writers' point. So maybe you need to check what you actually wrote before you start saying what you didn't write Someone might say you were deliberately lying and you know where liars go. Oh wait a minute! There is no Hell. Thank God! We can lie all we want. Come to think of it we can all now enjoy all the pleasures of sin for season before we go to Heaven because there's no more 'hell' to worry about. I mean if you believe in Heaven.
God's great love is only matched by His great wrath. You could not be more deceived. It's as if you've created a god in your own image. Good luck with that!
You did not say his experience wasn't from God, you said he was 'demonically inspired' which was the other writers' point. So maybe you need to check what you actually wrote before you start saying what you didn't write Someone might say you were deliberately lying and you know where liars go. Oh wait a minute! There is no Hell. Thank God! We can lie all we want. Come to think of it we can all now enjoy all the pleasures of sin for season before we go to Heaven because there's no more 'hell' to worry about. I mean if you believe in Heaven.
God's great love is only matched by His great wrath. You could not be more deceived. It's as if you've created a god in your own image. Good luck with that!
Forgive me if I misrepresented my original post. Yes, demonically inspired is what I said, so naturally that would be 'not of God' as well. But "lie all we want"? Are you serious? This says a lot, actually. I would hope my children tell the truth because they understand the virtue and blessing of it, not because they're terrified of what I might do to them if they lie. Are you're saying you would go and lie and sin like crazy if you thought you could get away with it? If that's the case (I'm not saying it is but you implied as much) that really does say something about what's in your heart.
As far as "No hell" are you saying there is no Sheol/Hades, or there is no Gehenna or there is no Tartarus? My point for asking this is people are throwing around an English word which has no Hebrew or Greek counterpart. That makes it impossible to have a real conversation about this because no one knows what term is being referred to.
Do you see Jonah warning about 'hell' also? I see him saying he cried from the gates of death (Sheol/the grave). Also interesting from Jonah is "the earth with her bars were about me forever" and yet he was out in 3 days!
Do you see where this 'eternal' torment myth starts breaking down?
Do you see Jonah warning about 'hell' also? I see him saying he cried from the gates of death (Sheol/the grave). Also interesting from Jonah is "the earth with her bars were about me forever" and yet he was out in 3 days!
Good point!
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God's great love is only matched by His great wrath.
Hi, I don't believe that God is never said to be wrath in the scriptures, but He is said to be love. Jesus taught us to love our enemies and pray for them, not to hate them and He taught us to be perfect just as our heavenly Father is perfect.
I have read half of the book and is certainly really interesting because of the title but, I felt that there was something weird, so I did my research and found the opinion of David J. Stewart who clearly exposes Bill Wiese to be a liar and I agree with him. Bill Wiese is making money out of one of his dreams. I have had many dreams with unexplainable stuffs like demons, angels and other unnatural stuffs but, I also know that many of our dreams are memories of the past, things that we have seen, like movies or stories from books. I believe that Christ is the only savior and that there is certainly a haven and a hell. But something that I have learned is that the things that come from God are pure and you will not doubt that is him not even a little!!God bless!!Monica
Titus 3:4-5- "But after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward men appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost."
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
You have no idea who I am nor of my credentials, but I can firmly say that like the thief on the cross beside Jesus, Hitler could have been welcomed into the presence of God from his death-bed had he acknowledged his need for repentance and salvation from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Like Bill Wiese said, it is not his job to convince nor convert you; only the Holy spirit. When you hear his testimony, and you feel a slight tugging at your heart to consider the possibility of this and your afterlife, don't ignore the possibility of God trying to save your soul from this "possible" destination. Jesus loves you so much and did not create this place (hell) for us nor does He send people there. People send themselves there because God is too just and perfect to allow corruption into His holy place of purity and perfection. He died so we don't have to should we just take his word (which he holds above His name) and believe everything he says to be true. Don't go to the grave wondering if you're saved from hell or not, you can be sure TODAY!! Listen to some of the near-death experiences from the athiests on youtube.com and consider their words of wisdom. God bless.
Bill Wiese is a liar. He quotes numerous scriptures throughout his book, most of which are completely irrelevant to what he is talking about. He continually grabs short phrases and sentences out the Bible and quotes them without showing you the context of the phrase, which makes it easy for him to read his own assumptions into it (yes, I actually looked up every single scripture he cites). The majority of Christians in modern America do not diligently read their Bibles anymore, which makes them easy prey for this kind of con job. But his bizarre fantastic story outrightly contradicts the Bible many times. Luke 16:27-31 (the Lord's parable of the rich man and Lazarus) says, "Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Our Lord Himself is very clear that if men reject the Gospel, and they refuse to listen to those who proclaim the Word of God, they will never be persuaded, even if someone came back from the dead to witness to them—something even more miraculous than Wiese’s alleged experience. Wiese himself specifically says, "One thing I was sure of: if what I had experienced was true, then I should be able to find proof of it in the Bible"; and, "I discovered that there are approximately 150 verses that reveal some aspect of hell, together confirming everything I had experienced." However, he does not even attempt to back up many of his claims from Scripture, such as deformed reptilian demons and big rats and spiders in hell. He cites many scripture about demons attacking people on earth (as do some of the posters on this forum), but he never provides a shred of proof that demons can torment people in hell. And Wiese himself states that if he can't prove it from the Bible, then it is not true. Please see my review of "23 Minutes in Hell" at http://www.geocities.com/spiritualli...ellReview.html.
Bill Wiese story is very scary but if he's lying then it's not going to be scary to him at all. But none of it makes sense. According to him hell was made for the devil and his demons but yet they get to torment people. He talks about heat, putrid smells, no air to breath, no strengh etc. So if hell was made for the devil and his demons then how come all this doesn't affect the demons as well. How come the demons can breath and have all their strengh?
Another thing to point out is Revelation 20 says that the devil will be bound in the abyss for a thousand years. So what happens to all the tormented souls? So the devil gets locked up but yet the lost souls get tormented for another thousand years. Thats insane. Also Bill Wiese said that demons will get to torment people for eternity but yet Revelation talks about the devil and his demons being cast into the lake of fire.
Maybe Bill was telling the truth but if he was it sure does not seem to fit in with what the bible teaches.
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Really?
