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2 Peter 3:10 .... The Day of the Lord (ESV) (Singular)
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed."
Matthew 24 ... The end times
Jesus answered:
“Watch out that no one deceives you. ...
You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
There will be famines and earthquakes in various places .... And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
.
Matthew 25 ... The only purpose of Jesus' return is to judge ... not to have a millennial rule.
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left...."
Ruling #1
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.' "
Ruling #2
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' "
Resulting in:
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Last edited by twin.spin; 02-17-2014 at 09:51 AM..
The OP states, ''Isn't it ironic that Jesus combines about being deceived with a millennial reign\return and OSAS.''
No, Jesus does not. It is the originator of this thread who attempts to do that. For the first two centuries, pre-millennialism was the dominant view of the early church.
Excerpt:
Some have claimed that belief in a literal "Millennium" is the product of twentieth century evangelical interpretation (especially widespread Dispensational teachings) but there is ample evidence that the literal view was espoused by many in the early church (the so-called "Early Church Fathers"), and that this view dominated for the first two centuries of the Christian era.
Geisler writes that
Millenarianism became the general belief of the time (the early church fathers) and met with almost no other opposition than that given by the Gnostics." (Geisler, Church History, vol.1, p.166)
John Walvoord gives a helpful synopsis of the history of the interpretation of the 1000 years noting that...
In the first two centuries of the Christian era the church was predominantly premillennial, interpreting Scripture to teach that Christ would fulfill the prophecy of His second coming and bring a thousand-year reign on earth before the eternal state will begin. Though not always cogent and sometimes fanciful, in general, prophecy was treated in the same way as other Scripture.
For those who aren't familiar with the Bible, 2 Peter 3:10, Matthew 24, Matthew 25 are not my words.
Matthew 24 ... The end times
Jesus answered:
“Watch out that no one deceives you. ... At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
the bold words from Jesus are scoffed by OSAS theology, so as Jesus warns: “Watch out that no one deceives you."
Matthew 25, 2 Peter 3:10 is the singular return of Jesus where other scriptures teach about a day of wrath, not a millennial rule
Psalm 110:5 The Lord is at your right hand; he will crush kings on the dayof his wrath.
Proverbs 16:4 The Lord works out everything to its proper end— even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Isaiah 13:9, 13 See, the day of the Lord is coming —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.
Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.
2 Peter 3:12 That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
among others.
Last edited by twin.spin; 02-17-2014 at 01:43 PM..
Reason: spacing gremlins
The reign of peace, lasting one thousand years, which will precede the Last Judgment and the future life. The concept has assumed especial importance in the Christian Church, where it is termed also “chiliasm,” designating the dominion of Jesus with the glorified and risen saints over the world for a thousand years. Chiliasm or the idea of the millennium is, nevertheless, older than the Christian Church; for the belief in a period of one thousand years at the end of time as a preliminary to the resurrection of the dead was held in Parseeism. This concept is expressed in Jewish literature in Enoch, xiii., xci. 12-17; in the apocalypse of the ten weeks, in Apoc. Baruch, xl. 3 (“And his dominion shall last forever, until the world doomed to destruction shall perish”); and in II Esdras vii. 28-29. Neither here nor in later Jewish literature is the duration of this Messianic reign fixed. It is clear, however, that the rule of the Messiah was considered as an interregnum, from the fact that in many passages, such as Pes. 68a, Ber. 34b, Sanh. 91b and 99a, Shab. 63a, 113b, and 141b, a distinction is made between and , although it must be noted that some regarded the Messianic rule as the period of the fulfilment of the prophecies, while others saw in it the time of the subjugation of the nations.
But in time, the church condemned Premillennialism as heresy. First, According to the Nicene Creed
………………. and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.
Sproul, R. C. (Ed.). (2015). The Reformation Study Bible: English Standard Version (2015 Edition) (p. 2389). Orlando, FL: Reformation Trust.
Also condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431 in two ways.
“In addition to its condemnation of Nestorianism, the council also condemned
Pelagianism, [2] and rejected premillennialism (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Papias,
Tertullian, Origen, Lactantius) in favor of Amillennialism (Clement of
Alexandria, Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine of Hippo): "Augustine's
explanation became Church doctrine when it was adopted as the definitive
explanation of the millennium by the Council of Ephesus in 431."[35]
Secondly, “Canon 7 condemned any departure from the creed established by the First Council of Nicaea (325)” This affirmed Jesus “shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.” Thereby denouncing premillennialism and the doctrines leading up to and including Dispensationalism of the 1800s.
For those who aren't familiar with the Bible, 2 Peter 3:10, Matthew 24, Matthew 25 are not my words. Matthew 24 ... The end times
Jesus answered:
“Watch out that no one deceives you. ... At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
the bold words from Jesus are scoffed by OSAS theology, so as Jesus warns: “Watch out that no one deceives you." Matthew 25, 2 Peter 3:10 is the singular return of Jesus where other scriptures teach about a day of wrath, not a millennial rule
Psalm 110:5 The Lord is at your right hand; he will crush kings on the dayof his wrath. Proverbs 16:4 The Lord works out everything to its proper end— even the wicked for a day of disaster. Isaiah 13:9, 13 See, the day of the Lord is coming —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of his burning anger. 2 Peter 3:12 That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. among others.
Notice about 'the heavens' at:
2nd Peter 3:5 the heavens of OLD ( Noah's day )
2nd Peter 3:7 the heavens of NOW ( from Noah to now our day or time frame )
2nd Peter 3:13 the heavens of NEW ( New starting with Jesus' Millennial reign over Earth )
So, the 'heavens by fire' the 'elements' melt are symbolic and Not literal.
Back in the first century they did Not know about the Periodic Table elements but the elementary debased things of the world alienated from God.
In Scripture the 'heavens' often refer to what governs over people.
Fire being symbolic of destruction. The wicked heavens aka bad governmental rule to be destroyed - Daniel 2:44-45
Notice about 'the heavens' at:
2nd Peter 3:5 the heavens of OLD ( Noah's day )
2nd Peter 3:7 the heavens of NOW ( from Noah to now our day or time frame )
2nd Peter 3:13 the heavens of NEW ( New starting with Jesus' Millennial reign over Earth )
So, the 'heavens by fire' the 'elements' melt are symbolic and Not literal.
Back in the first century they did Not know about the Periodic Table elements but the elementary debased things of the world alienated from God.
In Scripture the 'heavens' often refer to what governs over people.
Fire being symbolic of destruction. The wicked heavens aka bad governmental rule to be destroyed - Daniel 2:44-45
“so man lies down and does not rise; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor arise from their sleep.” (Job 14:12) (NET)
“so man lies down and does not rise; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor arise from their sleep.” (Job 14:12) (NET)
But what heaven?
Deu 28:22**The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
Deu 28:23**And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
Deu 28:24**The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
We have seen famines and earthquakes...we have seen hatred on large scales, (in the past as well as today)...
But where are all the 'false prophets' that deceive many? (can anyone name one?)
Keep in mind, a false prophet is NOT just someone claiming to be divine...a false prophet will have 'extraordinary or inhuman abilities', to back up their claims.
I cannot think of a single person thru out history that fits this description?
***Ive heard PLENTY of humans thinking and claiming they were divine, (but Ive yet to see one that had any supernatural abilities or inhuman skills).
And to anyone thinking the scam artist TV evangelists or others like them fit the description of a false prophet...think again... those types would technically be 'fake-false prophets', (they are 100% human with no supernatural abilities).
One would assume, we would have seen at least a couple false prophets by now though? Think about it...how easy it would be for a false prophet, (who demonstrated supernatural abilities, that no one else could do)...how effective they would be at deception?! I bet they could deceive millions on the first display! (but we have not even seen one yet?) Hmmm
We have seen famines and earthquakes...we have seen hatred on large scales, (in the past as well as today)...
But where are all the 'false prophets' that deceive many? (can anyone name one?)
Keep in mind, a false prophet is NOT just someone claiming to be divine...a false prophet will have 'extraordinary or inhuman abilities', to back up their claims.
I cannot think of a single person thru out history that fits this description?
***Ive heard PLENTY of humans thinking and claiming they were divine, (but Ive yet to see one that had any supernatural abilities or inhuman skills).
And to anyone thinking the scam artist TV evangelists or others like them fit the description of a false prophet...think again... those types would technically be 'fake-false prophets', (they are 100% human with no supernatural abilities).
One would assume, we would have seen at least a couple false prophets by now though? Think about it...how easy it would be for a false prophet, (who demonstrated supernatural abilities, that no one else could do)...how effective they would be at deception?! I bet they could deceive millions on the first display! (but we have not even seen one yet?) Hmmm
How many of the Dispensationalists' claims came true? How many times have their forecasts about Jesus' return, giving dates, ever came true?
How many of the Dispensationalists' claims came true? How many times have their forecasts about Jesus' return, giving dates, ever came true?
That is not the same thing.
Besides that, this was all supposed to happen within one generation, so its very similar to those who have set incorrect dates for the end world.
If the bible says these things will occur within a generation and multiple generations have passed without it happening...well, it falls into the same category as all the other claims that turned out wrong.
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