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Old 10-06-2016, 07:48 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,075,915 times
Reputation: 7812

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Nevertheless, your car is still defective and a danger to drive. You do not believe what God says about sin (and what is obvious about all humans).

Seems to you...? Not certain? Beware!
So your god's story is we are defective from the start and all we have to do is ADMIT we are defective, accept Christ, and still we are "defective" but now your god ignores our defects while we live in the flesh and then your god will erase our defects we were forced to live with for years once we are beamed up into your god's heaven?

At least the car dealer will FIX the car and not just paint it and send it out in the same shape it came in..

Does this about sum it up?
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,392 posts, read 12,668,457 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
So your god's story is we are defective from the start and all we have to do is ADMIT we are defective, accept Christ, and still we are "defective" but now your god ignores our defects while we live in the flesh and then your god will erase our defects we were forced to live with for years once we are beamed up into your god's heaven?

At least the car dealer will FIX the car and not just paint it and send it out in the same shape it came in..

Does this about sum it up?
No, it doesn't.

2 Corinthians 5

17 If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has gone, the new is here!
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:21 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,075,915 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Nevertheless, your car is still defective and a danger to drive. You do not believe what God says about sin (and what is obvious about all humans).

Seems to you...? Not certain? Beware!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
So your god's story is we are defective from the start and all we have to do is ADMIT we are defective, accept Christ, and still we are "defective" but now your god ignores our defects while we live in the flesh and then your god will erase our defects we were forced to live with for years once we are beamed up into your god's heaven?

At least the car dealer will FIX the car and not just paint it and send it out in the same shape it came in..

Does this about sum it up?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
No, it doesn't.

2 Corinthians 5

17 If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has gone, the new is here!
But we INCLUDING YOU still sin? How in the Hades is that a NEW CREATION?

What exactly has changed? If we still SIN, we still have the potential to burst into flames!
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,392 posts, read 12,668,457 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
But we INCLUDING YOU still sin? How in the Hades is that a NEW CREATION?

What exactly has changed? If we still SIN, we still have the potential to burst into flames!
Christians should sin less and less as we become more like Christ, just like children mature to adults. We become more focused on Him rather than self. One day, we will be free from the weakness that is our flesh. Our new heavenly bodies will no longer have fleshly urges.
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Old 10-07-2016, 04:34 AM
 
5,912 posts, read 2,580,920 times
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What if one wants those fleshy urges?

Can you say robot jimmiej?
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Old 10-07-2016, 05:04 AM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,087,833 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Christians should sin less and less as we become more like Christ, just like children mature to adults. We become more focused on Him rather than self. One day, we will be free from the weakness that is our flesh. Our new heavenly bodies will no longer have fleshly urges.
But everything a fundamentalist says suggests the opposite, for sin is the main focus and worse...... sin not of your own but of others. So like zthatz said..... nothing has changed other than a desire not to sin anymore and judgement towards those that still do what you judge to be sin.
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Old 10-08-2016, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Ft Myers, FL
2,771 posts, read 2,281,915 times
Reputation: 5139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
...
  1. What does it mean to no longer accept Jesus as your Savior? Do you now reject the Christ?
...
I’d like to expand upon my first questions, “What does it mean to no longer accept Jesus as your Savior? Do you now reject the Christ?” in my original post #1, to clarify my intent.

Scenario:

“Faith” was brought up in a Christian home. She accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior as a young adult, regularly attended church, had been baptized, studied the Bible, shared the Gospel to non-believers, believed in Heaven and Hell, etc.

As she matured, she left the Church and followed her Christianity less and less. Eventually, she had come to realize she no longer believed. But what does it mean to “believe?” Belief in the Biblical sense means more than holding mere credence. Belief in Jesus doesn’t simply mean, “Do you believe facts about Jesus?”

According to the Bible, (as explained by GotQuestions.org,) belief in Jesus includes understanding that:

1. Jesus is God in human form (John 1:1, 14)
2. Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for sins (1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21), for which one deserves eternal separation from God (Romans 6:23)
3. The sacrifice of Jesus, God incarnate, is the only adequate payment for sins (1 John 2:2; John 14:6; Acts 4:12)

Belief in Jesus Christ is much more than just believing that He was a historical entity. Personally, I think the word “accept” is a better word than “believe.”

Some claim that an opposite of “believe” is “reject.” In my opinion, reject seems too strong an antonym if the word belief is based on credibility only. Opposites of belief include disbelief and unbelief.

Getting back to Faith, if she claims she no longer believes, then she no longer accepts Jesus as her Lord and Savior. Therefore in essence she “rejects” Christ. For the purposes of this example, the opposite of “to accept” is “to reject.”

Therefore, if one formerly held Jesus as God in human form who died on the cross as the only adequate payment for the penalty for sins, for which (according to the Bible) we all deserve eternal separation from God, and now one doesn’t, then that person has rejected Christ. Faith no longer accepts Jesus, so now she rejects Him. One either accepts the Christ or rejects the Christ. There is no in-between.

Last edited by Corvette Ministries; 10-08-2016 at 03:26 PM..
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Old 10-08-2016, 02:39 PM
 
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
3,348 posts, read 1,622,837 times
Reputation: 102
hmm, i am led to reply that the same description seems to accompany the faithful and those who will hear I Never Knew You. So this insistence that there is no in between seems misplaced. I notice that fundies deny Christ, in a manner of speaking, by refusing to believe Him @ "Love your neighbor; this is all you need to do."
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Old 10-09-2016, 08:45 AM
 
Location: USA
17,156 posts, read 11,306,202 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
I’d like to expand upon my first questions, “What does it mean to no longer accept Jesus as your Savior? Do you now reject the Christ?” in my original post #1, to clarify my intent.

Scenario:

“Faith” was brought up in a Christian home. She accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior as a young adult, regularly attended church, had been baptized, studied the Bible, shared the Gospel to non-believers, believed in Heaven and Hell, etc.

As she matured, she left the Church and followed her Christianity less and less. Eventually, she had come to realize she no longer believed. But what does it mean to “believe?” Belief in the Biblical sense means more than holding mere credence. Belief in Jesus doesn’t simply mean, “Do you believe facts about Jesus?”

According to the Bible, (as explained by GotQuestions.org,) belief in Jesus includes understanding that:

1. Jesus is God in human form (John 1:1, 14)
2. Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for sins (1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21), for which one deserves eternal separation from God (Romans 6:23)
3. The sacrifice of Jesus, God incarnate, is the only adequate payment for sins (1 John 2:2; John 14:6; Acts 4:12)

Belief in Jesus Christ is much more than just believing that He was a historical entity. Personally, I think the word “accept” is a better word than “believe.”

Some claim that an opposite of “believe” is “reject.” In my opinion, reject seems too strong an antonym if the word belief is based on credibility only. Opposites of belief include disbelief and unbelief.

Getting back to Faith, if she claims she no longer believes, then she no longer accepts Jesus as her Lord and Savior. Therefore in essence she “rejects” Christ. For the purposes of this example, the opposite of “to accept” is “to reject.”

Therefore, if one formerly held Jesus as God in human form who died on the cross as the only adequate payment for the penalty for sins, for which (according to the Bible) we all deserve eternal separation from God, and now one doesn’t, then that person has rejected Christ. Faith no longer accepts Jesus, so now she rejects Him. One either accepts the Christ or rejects the Christ. There is no in-between.

Since you agree with others that God will punish people who "reject" Jesus because they believe some or all of the doctrines preached about him and God to be FALSE, perhaps you can explain how that makes sense to you? Your version of God is that God rewards those who are somehow able to fool or force themselves to believe things they think are a lie (can you explain how that is even possible to do?). Why would you think that a God who is good and values truth in the "inner man", sincerity and integrity would do such a thing? Or doesn't God value those things?
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Old 10-09-2016, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Ft Myers, FL
2,771 posts, read 2,281,915 times
Reputation: 5139
Please read Romans 6:23.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Hell is a given. We all deserve Hell and everything in it. We are fallen creatures due to the sins of Adam and Eve.

God doesn't punish us - we've already earned our destiny due to original sin. What God does offer us, however, is a free gift - the gift of salvation, through His son, Jesus Christ. All we gotta do is dedicate our lives to the Lord, and avoid the pull of Satan through the Ways of the World. That's it - Simple as that. Give up all things Worldly, and you're granted the Keys to Heaven's Gate - Eternal Salvation.

What's not to Love?
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