Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So are you claiming that if someone believes the Bible is inerrant, they do not and can not have the Holy Spirit indwelling them?
I would say that for anyone who honestly investigates, it would be impossible to believe in Biblical inerrancy, yes. For those who refuse to do so, the question may not be all that important in their walk.
You are SO bought into the idea of the AUTHORITY of the BIBLE that you can't even see what it means if you are WRONG about that idea.
The Bible has NO authority in itself. ALL authority is in the Guide Jesus promised. When you can understand that concept, THEN we can talk about contradictions and/or why I can use the Bible as the best expression of a point (besides being the only thing to which YOU will pay attention) without citing it AS AUTHORITY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Says who?
QED
Jesus promised A Guide. Why do you look for another?
Let me try AGAIN then: Jesus did. He promised ONE guide and you choose to look for another.
I've told you numerous times. I do NOT dismiss the Spirit. The Spirit of God indwells ALL believers. I simply do not believe the He will disagree with scripture. They both proclaim the same message.
You liberals dismiss the parts of scripture you find offensive, even going so far as to believe the first half of John 3:16, but dismissing the second half. That's ludicrous! That allows you to make up theology, invoke the Spirit and thus sound all righteous.
Jesus quoted scripture and told us His redemption work was spoken of within, the apostles quoted scripture and Paul told us "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." Peter, who walked with Jesus, confirmed Paul's writings as gospel.
Ephesians states, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory."
My understanding of Nate and Mystic is that they would agree with this particular passage of scripture. Let me know if I'm wrong there.
Secondly, was not Jesus clear that we would receive the Spirit when we were saved? (John 14 through 16) Surely it seems that you agree with this statement based on past postings, but advise me if I am wrong.
Therefore, are we in agreement that if one is saved, one has the spirit? Or is there some loophole I'm missing in trying to understand the way Mystic / Nate are thinking about the issue?
Because the way I read it, Mystic's claim that someone who believes the Bible is inerrant is WITHOUT the Spirit therefore logically denies the very salvation of those believe in the Bible as inerrant (salvation --> spirit received; no salvation --> no spirit received). And needless to say, I disagree quite stridently with that sort of judgment, but I am trying to reserve my expression of emotion until I get a clear answer here.
I've told you numerous times. I do NOT dismiss the Spirit. The Spirit of God indwells ALL believers. I simply do not believe the He will disagree with scripture. They both proclaim the same message.
You liberals dismiss the parts of scripture you find offensive, even going so far as to believe the first half of John 3:16, but dismissing the second half. That's ludicrous! That allows you to make up theology, invoke the Spirit and thus sound all righteous.
Jesus quoted scripture and told us His redemption work was spoken of within, the apostles quoted scripture and Paul told us "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." Peter, who walked with Jesus, confirmed Paul's writings as gospel.
That would be Old Testament scripture, right jimmie?
I've told you numerous times. I do NOT dismiss the Spirit. The Spirit of God indwells ALL believers. I simply do not believe the He will disagree with scripture. They both proclaim the same message.
You liberals dismiss the parts of scripture you find offensive, even going so far as to believe the first half of John 3:16, but dismissing the second half. That's ludicrous! That allows you to make up theology, invoke the Spirit and thus sound all righteous.
Jesus quoted scripture and told us His redemption work was spoken of within, the apostles quoted scripture and Paul told us "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." Peter, who walked with Jesus, confirmed Paul's writings as gospel.
AND as you have been told numerous times, the authority for dismissing elements of thew Bible is the very NATURE of the Spirit as revealed by Jesus and confirmed by actual encounter with that Spirit as described. IF the Bible did NOT contradict that Spirit, you might have a point, but you are turning over the authority OF the Spirit TO the Bible when you claim infallibility for it and you BIND the Spirit by doing so.
No one didmisses the second half of John 3:16, though our interpretation of the consequences is different from yours. You can't see this, because you don't even hold to the authority of the Bible as simply pout forth, but to the authority of the doctrines you have been taught are derived from the Bible.....WRONG.
Once again "inspired" does NOT mean "dictated," and "useful" does not mean "to be taken as rules."
AND as you have been told numerous times, the authority for dismissing elements of thew Bible is the very NATURE of the Spirit as revealed by Jesus and confirmed by actual encounter with that Spirit as described. IF the Bible did NOT contradict that Spirit, you might have a point, but you are turning over the authority OF the Spirit TO the Bible when you claim infallibility for it and you BIND the Spirit by doing so.
No one didmisses the second half of John 3:16, though our interpretation of the consequences is different from yours. You can't see this, because you don't even hold to the authority of the Bible as simply pout forth, but to the authority of the doctrines you have been taught are derived from the Bible.....WRONG.
Once again "inspired" does NOT mean "dictated," and "useful" does not mean "to be taken as rules."
"As revealed by Jesus". We read about Jesus in the scriptures. Does the Spirit conflict with the words of Jesus? If so, where? I have no problem with the words of Christ. Do you? Jesus, when promising the Spirit, never told us the Spirit would conflict with or negate scripture.
FYI, Mystic told me that yes, it is possible that the second half of John 3:16 is a mistake, likely not of the Spirit. Nevertheless, what does "perish" mean to you?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
