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There are things taught by Jesus and the apostles that evangelicals clearly have a problem with. These include MERCY, LOVE. ACCEPTANCE, FORGIVENESS, MEEKNESS, HUMILITY, CARING FOR NEIGHBORS, PROVIDING FOR THE MARGINALIZED, PEACE over WAR, SERVICE OVER WEALTH, and JESUS being more important than the bible..
You incorrect opinion, which had nothing to support it is noted and rejected.
The Bible is NOT "the basis," and it is NOT the "Guide" Jesus promised. THAT guide is the basis and the known characteristics taught by Jesus and the Apostles is the test by which we know that guidance. When the Spirit affirms scripture it is one thing, when scripture departs from the characteristics of the Spirit it is seen to be only the perceptionsof men.
Scripture NEVER departs from from the characteristic of the Spirit.
Your never changing God sanctions slavery. Just because Christians choose not to observe slavery, does not change the fact that you worship this God.
God never sanctioned slavery. He allowed it and gave rules for it to protect the slave.
Jews offered themselves as servants, not slaves, when they could no longer support their family. After 7 years the owner gave them enough goods to continue supporting heir family on their own.
Gentiles usually became slaves as a result of war. They could have been killed but some were not. Usually slavery is better than death.
I wish God had banned slavery but His ways are not our ways and since He smarter than any of us, I beleive His ways in every case are the best.
You can't have it both ways. Aren't you one of those who is always harping about focusing on the words of Christ in the Bible and not the words of Paul? (Also, how do you know the "known characteristics taught by Jesus and the Apostles is the test" ... if not from Scripture? Jesus Himself made it quite clear that we would all ultimately be judged by the very words He had spoken. Where do you propose we get those words, if not from Scripture?
"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day." John 12:48 NIV
Jesus also taught that the Gospel of the Kingdom would be preached to the entire world before the end came. He did not say, "Go and preach whatever you think the Spirit is telling you"
"Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." Matthew 24:12-14 - NIV
We are also told that "Faith comes by hearing the Word of God." Again, the question is, What do you suggest "the Word of God" is, if not Scripture?
"16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.” Romans 10:16-18
One can clearly see when what one claims is the Holy Spirit varies from Scripture/the Word of God. It is a slippery slope and entirely un-Scriptural and unreliable to attempt to claim that Scripture is in error if whatever one thinks they are hearing from the Holy Spirit varies from Scripture. Many on the CD "Christianity forum" commonly use this approach to throw Scripture out the window - whenever it disagrees with their own private interpretation of what the Holy Spirit is saying.
Well said. Keep up the good work.
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 1 Peter 1:20-21 - KJV.
I've read a lot of what you have written out here and can tell that you are honestly a God-seeker and not only another 'rock thrower' who automatically rejects all Scripture. But, the claim that everyone is to individually determine what is of God and the Holy Spirit, by their own sense of what is right or of God/the Holy Spirit ... seems quite well-intentioned, but very misguided.
Because some of the people who believe that the stupid parts of the bible are true, try to force-feed their beliefs on others.
Why do you consider defending what we believe as force feeding. What qualifies you to determine what parts of the Bible are stupid? Opinions need support or they are worthless.
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They cause harm to children and those they deem lesser than themselves, like blacks, women and the LGBTQ.
Bigotry brushes are way to wide. The Bible teaches us to love even our enemies and that ALL PEOPLE have worth because they are made in the image of God. You should not judge what people who claim to be Christians do, check if what they do is what the Bible teaches. How did you determine those you are accusing were really Christians. Many non-Christians dislike homosexuals, blacks, women and many blacks hate the white folks. Why don't you get on their case?
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I know no one anywhere, trying to promulgate ancient Roman, Norse or Greek beliefs on others.
WE have figured out that those gods are worthless.
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If I did, I'd take them on too.
There are some who speak of the gods of eastern religions. Have you chastised them yet? Maybe it is only Christians who speak f their God who are trying to force their religion on everyone.
"Man cannot comprehend the existence of error, when too deeply immersed in it." ~Jerwade
That is a good thought. Does it apply equaally to you also?
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You can ignore me (it appears to be your modus operandi), but w
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hat makes you believe the Latin Vulgate was worthy to be translated or that it was translated correctly? Do you not know that the majority of what you and others believe came from the Roman Catholic Church in one form, or another - inclusive of that which was mistranslated to begin with - Jesus said, he will be with us until the end of the age, or to the end of the world. In other words, aionion should never have been translated to mean eternal.
However, you can thank Jerome for the errors in translating the so called Bible into Latin, which became known as the Vulgate - a long time before Wycliffe.
Protestant don't use those translation and I agree we should not use the for the reasons you just mentioned. No good translation is based on the Vulgate.
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In the event you decide to respond:
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The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) or torment beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (αἰώνιον - a period of time, as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - punishment, chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life.
If you want to believe there is no reference to eternal, firey punishment, that is your choice. If you want to deny the existence of hell, you need to know the Jesus taught more about hell, than He did about heaven. Also you can't deny their is such a place and that the wicked end up there, and it is a place of torment You also need to Know God has provided a simple way to avoid going there.
Mark 9:44& 46 speaking of hell, says, "where the worn does not die, and the fire is not quenched. How do you understand those verses? Yes I know they are not in the early mss, but if God did not want them in there , they would not be in there.
First, the Jews are not allowed to actively enslave fellow Hebrews. In Exodus time, slavery is well regulated. Comparatively, the Egyptians killed the Jews' children on-sight simply because the Jews got over-populated. While in Jeremiah's time, all slaves should be freed.
Lev 25:35
If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.
So the first measure to be taken in case of a poor fellow Jew is to help him out. Even in the case that the poor Jew decided to sell himself out, do not treat him as a slave.
Lev 25:39-44
39 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves.
40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee.*
41 Then they and their children are to be released, and they will go back to their own clans and to the property of their ancestors.*
42*Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves.*
43 Do not rule over them ruthlessly, but fear your God.*
44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.*
In the year of Jubilee, all slaves male or female will be freed.*
As for female slaves. They are free to go as male slaves.
Deut 15:12-15
12 If any of your people—Hebrew men or women—sell themselves to you and serve you six years, in the seventh year you must let them go free.
13 And when you release them, do not send them away empty-handed.
14 Supply them liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to them as the Lord your God has blessed you.
15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today.
God gave them command to free male and female slaves alike. God reminded them that they should do so because God redeemed them from Egypt.
However, there are technical difficulties when this is implemented in reality. As a result, there are some rules going into the detailed situations.
The first of this is female slaves sold by their fathers. Under most circumstance, they are taken as wives one way or another. That's why they are not freed the same way as male slaves. However, the owners will have to do the following,
The first option is to take them as wives or concubines, they need to treat them equally as the non-slave wives and concubines.
The second option is to take them as wives of their children. The same applies that they should be treated equally as non-slave wives.
The third option is to allow them to be redeemed to other owners will be able to do the above 2 options.
If the owners failed to do the above three, they should allow the female slaves to go free.
Exodus 21:8-118*
8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.*
9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter.*
10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.*
11*If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.
The second problem is that when the owners gave wives to male slaves, say in their sixth years of service. In the seven year the male slaves may go free together with the female slaves who could be new in service. As a result, rule is set that the female slaves will be freed this way along with the male slave. They are freed by other means, that is, the 3 points listed above with the final resolution that the female slave will finally go free.
As you can see here, the slavery system in Israel is not like any other slavery systems around the world at the time of Exodus. The motive is to help the poor out. And in Jeremiah's time, all slaves shall be freed.*
Jeremiah 34:8-9
8 The word came to Jeremiah from the LORD after King Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people in Jerusalem to proclaim freedom for the slaves.*
9*Everyone was to free their Hebrew slaves, both male and female; no one was to hold a fellow Hebrew in bondage.
They were not considered slaves. They were servants.
You are dodging the truth. This is apologetics at its worse. For this bible to be true, you have to accept that God sanctioned slavery. Who layed down the mosaic laws? God or Moses?
If you consider God sanctioned everything mentioned in he Bible, you have to consider He sanctioned sin, evil, blasphemy etc. Surely you see how absurd that idea is.
Just like to point as I did in another thread, there are oaths all through the NT.
Also, He was not telling them to turn their cheek to get hit again as in be a complete pacificist, it was to shame the one who hit. They used their right hands for everything, and their left hands were only used for taking care of bodily functions and therefore unclean. So once you struck a man on his left cheek with your right hand, if he turned the other cheek, you'd be facing his right cheek, and the only way you could then hit him would be to backhand him (only done to lesser than's, ie. your servants) or you'd have to hit him with your unclean hand (shameful). In other words, it stopped the fight at one blow or the aggressor would be shamed worse than the one hit. Peace
And you are missing the point, Jesus said not to do the eye for an eye, yet the OT says an eye for and eye is ok.
Also Jesus just ignored the purity laws of the OT.
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