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Old 10-18-2016, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,317,309 times
Reputation: 3089

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
It's not important.

recognize that if Scripture nods to Hammurabi, you are dismissing the collected wisdom of mankind because of some *******s who do not understand it either, possibly.
"wisdom"? Who's to say that the bible is a book of wisdom? I don't recognize it as anything more than a collection of fairy tales. If it is your claim that the bible should be taken as wisdom, then go ahead and prove it. I don't need to prove that it's NOT a book of wisdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
yet you support slavery, have a smartphone, enjoy ridiculously cheap products, right?
Not even close to the same thing
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:45 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,075,915 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Then you need to campaign to end banks that give loans and other creditors. Because that is more akin to the slavery in the OT.
Are banks now allowed to beat their debtors so badly they need 2-3 days to recover? What would be the bankers penalty for beating a debtor?
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:14 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,659,947 times
Reputation: 17805
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
The Bible, when teamed up with the Holy Spirit, has the potential to reach unlimited depths of wisdom and knowledge about the unseen God to our souls and spirirts.

When the Bible is NOT teamed up with the Holy Spirit, there is the potential for responses like the one above.
Amen, DRob4JC, yes, absolutely the Bible and the Holy Spirit go hand in hand . It is He who reveals to us what Christ, the word, is speaking to us and He gives us the "unlimited depths of wisdom and knowledge about the unseen God to our souls and spirits." Without Him we can do nothing !

What is so awesome is the testimony that it is the Holy Spirit who is always the One revealing His truth to you and others through the Bible and you all posting it . It is quite obvious He (Holy Spirit) being such a part of you will reveal to you in order to help others about God, to prepare what is His unlimited depths of wisdom and knowledge that we may walk in His truth which is written in the holy scripture for all to know and especially for those who choose to turn to Him and listen and learn what it is God is revealing at that moment in time for our lives .

I haven't read the whole thread yet but already know what is probably in the pages ahead and it is a shame though to read so much energy put forth into the work of opposing the word of God because of their unbelief and then continually try to deflect in order to create in others a doubt in order to cause many to draw away from God's Spirit and Word (Bible) because of their ignorance and unbelief of what is in the word of God !
Yet, one day it will all come together to all and all will witness the complete truth of what you and others have said in your post (past and present) and there will be many who had wished they opened their hearts and truly listened rather then rebel and follow their own ways !



Blessings to you
Keep it up, it is so up-lifting to see such wonderful work in our Lord !
As I know He hears and see's His servants such as yourself continually fighting the good fight, witnessing His truth against the awful opposition here and is blessed by the obedience to the call of serving Him in this place !
Such love, amen !
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 1,161,560 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
The OT (after Gen. 12) is about the descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. It is not referring to anyone outside of that group. These are Jewish laws.

I am not being dishonest. The Lord is spelling out for the Jews the rules for the slavery that was already in existence.

It is not saying slavery is good or bad - but if you have them, then these are the rules.

As far as the NT goes - if your culture allows slavery, you don't treat them harshly and you operate according to the rules set forth.

The Bible is neutral with regards to slavery. If you have a problem with that - I don't blame you. But it is what it is.



We do see the Bible's intent, which is why we defend it. It is not about Jewish elders, that's for sure.
Why is it that God has commandments against murder, theft, to honor parents, not covet or lie, but he fully sanctions slavery? He(actually the Jewish elders) specifically regulates slavery as apposed to outlawing it. You can't justify this, and you can't sweep it under the rug with apologetics. The bible clearly sanctions slavery. It clearly sanctioned mass murder and mass rape. It sanctioned stonings for ridiculous offenses. This book is not the work of a loving creator.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 1,161,560 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I'm sorry God just doesn't do as you or I want and strike slavery from existence.

Your second sentence - I don't know what you are trying to say.

You have an assumption that all slavery is bad slavery - and that is not the case. If you read the earlier parts of the Leviticus chapter you quoted, people offered themselves to be slaves. Sometimes the relationship is good.

The Emancipation Proclamation... there were slaves who opted to stay with their masters rather than be free.

When people had nothing - they could choose to work for a family, and that person could get their needs met.

So I think part of the problem is the assumption is that all slavery is bad slavery. Even though I would not suggest it to anyone - there are cases where it can be beneficial in the right environment. And I think God knew that - especially back in that day when resources were much more scarce - which is probably why God did not echo your statement above.
All slavery is bad. It is human ownership and dehumanizing a human as property. The fact that some preferred it in no way justifies the institution. It is an evil institution, period. It separated and treated slave families like dogs, it justified owners abuse. You should research the American slave trade. I'm sure earlier slavery was no better. This book sanctioned fathers selling their daughters to their rapist. These are not the words of a loving God, but of pathetic men.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 1,161,560 times
Reputation: 1015
[quote=omega2xx;45868640][quote=maat55;45858983]You keep deflecting from the slaves bought by Jews to the Jews selling themselves as slaves.
Quote:

There were different rule for both. A Jew selling himself was not a slave, he was a bond servant. His term was 6 hears. The slave was a slave for lie, unless the owner set them free.



I am glad you recognize that



I haven't admitted anything about slavery.




It is amusing when folks like you make an ignorant remark they can't prove. Do you not realize how foolish that makes you look? evidently not.
As usual, you attack the messenger because you cannot dispute my claim. You did admit that the bible sanctioned slavery. And, btw, replacing slave with servant changes nothing. I get served at dinners or hire servants for many different tasks, but they are never obligated to me and are free to refuse. Not so with your "servants".
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 1,161,560 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
That's right.

And depending on the owners - the experience was not always bad... the slave was not always mistreated.
This does not justify the institution and or the "God" who sanctioned it.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 1,161,560 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Then with your logic that God is perfectly fine with beating a slave, why would this verse even exist? Your interpretation stubbornly REFUSES to look at cultural context and doesn't even align with the rest of the Bible.

The bottom line is you can not find a SINGLE verse where God directly says that He approves of slavery.
Take off the rosey glasses and read again.


Leviticus 25:44-46New International Version (NIV)

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Notice the you mays and you cans. These are sanctions. Willful ignorance is not healthy.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:39 PM
 
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
3,348 posts, read 1,622,837 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
"wisdom"? Who's to say that the bible is a book of wisdom? I don't recognize it as anything more than a collection of fairy tales. If it is your claim that the bible should be taken as wisdom, then go ahead and prove it. I don't need to prove that it's NOT a book of wisdom
no, i guess you don't, but the claim is hardly mine alone. Iow Hammurabi, Abraham, Moses, Solomon, Job etc were considered among the wisest, by all of humanity, and so the BoP is kind of on you if you want to dispute that. God suggests that wisdom may be gained by It. If we took a poll, would you accept the results? If the Bible had a parable allowing that atheists might inherit the kingdom, would that sway you? Do you agree that you were created? Or what common ground can we agree upon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
Not even close to the same thing
are you sure? if we took a poll, would you accept the results? or, what common...whoa, deju vu. So, what do we agree upon, that we can come to some agreement about what we do not agree upon? Do you have a problem with Love your neighbor? Or you pick, i don't care.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 1,161,560 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Those who diss the Bible do so out of ignorance of what is actually said in it. The Slavery in Israel was like indentured servitude and ended at a specific time. They were not slaves like in the Roman empire or even here in the USA. In some cases they could actually volunteer to be life long slaves, because of love for their "owners". This is an example of why even Christ's brothers are slaves of God. They want to be out of love for God. Unlike Adan who wanted to control his life. they want God in charge.
Congratulations, you get third place. Now, cover your eyes and go lalalalalalalala.

Leviticus 25:44-46New International Version (NIV)

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
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