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cheirotoneó: to vote by stretching out the hand, to appoint
Original Word: χειροτονέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: cheirotoneó
Phonetic Spelling: (khi-rot-on-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I choose by vote, appoint
Definition: I elect by show of hands, choose by vote, appoint.
"Guidance" might be a better term than "advice," but any such would be confirmed by the promised Guide.
Jesus Christ is the true head of the Church. I believe what wholeheartedly. But Jesus did give Peter the keys.
The key to the kingdom would include the key of knowledge and certainly much Catholic theology did not come from knowledge.
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He appointed him to stand at the helm of the earthly Church He (Christ) promised to establish before His death.
That is along standing bone of contention between Catholics and Protestants and we will not settle it here.
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A person does not need to be perfect in order to hold a position of responsibility and leadership. I believe that is evident throughout the Old Testament and continuing into the New Testament. God chooses imperfect people to fill important roles because that's His only option. None of us are perfect.
Agreed
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God does indeed grant us many blessings when we follow His Son. I can't say I interpret all of the scriptures you mentioned in the same way as you do, but I do believe God has provided all of us with the means of returning to His presence, free from the effects of sin.
I found your choices very odd, to say the least.
Yes, the Church should be like before
No, the hierarchy is important
What in the world makes you think "like before" didn't involve a hierarchy? There was a very specific, very definite hierarchy in the original Church. Peter was generally assumed to have been Jesus' choice to stand at the head of the Church after His (Christ's) death. He and the other Apostles were to have formed the foundation of the Church, Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone. Paul describes prophets, pastors, teachers, and evangelists as all having a role in the organizational structure of the Church. He further stated that this structure was to remain in place until all Christians became united in their faith. Has that happened yet? Hell, no! What has happened instead? Just as Paul prophesied would be the case, Christ's followers would end up being like children "tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine." That's precisely what happens when you have a "priesthood of all believers." Jesus Christ gave the keys of authority to Peter, not to every one of His many disciples.
Okay, Mystic... Bring it on!
Appreciate the invitation, Katz. Hierarchy is anathema. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is what accounts for the corruption of Christ's Gospel into the "precepts and doctrines of men." No matter what magic you choose to believe in, men choose leaders and some are self-appointed, but they can in no way be chosen by God or Jesus or Peter or Paul or anyone else. Jesus did NOT want any hierarchy and no one to be first or last. It was the existing so-called leaders - Pharisees and Sadducees - who failed the Old Covenant through corruption and who Jesus called vipers and white-washed tombs leading others to be devils worse than themselves. We each have different gifts of the Holy Spirit (agape), but we all must be judged by our fruits of that Spirit, NOT by men or ourselves. Read 1 Cor 12 and 1 Cor 13 not as separate chapters but as one. Our gifts are not our own, they are given by the Holy Spirit and it is they that define our roles, NOT a hierarchy established by men, for we are all EQUAL in value to the Body.
Appreciate the invitation, Katz. Hierarchy is anathema. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is what accounts for the corruption of Christ's Gospel into the "precepts and doctrines of men." No matter what magic you choose to believe in, men choose leaders and some are self-appointed, but they can in no way be chosen by God or Jesus or Peter or Paul or anyone else. Jesus did NOT want any hierarchy and no one to be first or last. It was the existing so-called leaders - Pharisees and Sadducees - who failed the Old Covenant through corruption and who Jesus called vipers and white-washed tombs leading others to be devils worse than themselves. We each have different gifts of the Holy Spirit (agape), but we all must be judged by our fruits of that Spirit, NOT by men or ourselves. Read 1 Cor 12 and 1 Cor 13 not as separate chapters but as one. Our gifts are not our own, they are given by the Holy Spirit and it is they that define our roles, NOT a hierarchy established by men, for we are all EQUAL in value to the Body.
In religion the cream does not always rise to the top. Those who rise to the top are usually proud, needing to have some power of authority over others, to given them a sense of importance.
Appreciate the invitation, Katz. Hierarchy is anathema. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is what accounts for the corruption of Christ's Gospel into the "precepts and doctrines of men." No matter what magic you choose to believe in, men choose leaders and some are self-appointed, but they can in no way be chosen by God or Jesus or Peter or Paul or anyone else. Jesus did NOT want any hierarchy and no one to be first or last. It was the existing so-called leaders - Pharisees and Sadducees - who failed the Old Covenant through corruption and who Jesus called vipers and white-washed tombs leading others to be devils worse than themselves. We each have different gifts of the Holy Spirit (agape), but we all must be judged by our fruits of that Spirit, NOT by men or ourselves. Read 1 Cor 12 and 1 Cor 13 not as separate chapters but as one. Our gifts are not our own, they are given by the Holy Spirit and it is they that define our roles, NOT a hierarchy established by men, for we are all EQUAL in value to the Body.
Thanks for your input, Mystic. I knew you wouldn't disappoint me.
In religion the cream does not always rise to the top. Those who rise to the top are usually proud, needing to have some power of authority over others, to given them a sense of importance.
So is that how you would characterize Christ's Apostles?
The Bible does say that , so the priesthood has not failed.
ok, but recognize that you told me the other day that someone couldn't do something anymore because there was no Temple, or priest, or...something else, anymore. i saved the comment, if you want to see it. Of course you meant it physically speaking, at the time, i guess. but those are not physical things, are they.
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