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It was John Calvin who betrayed him and had him arrested. Servetus had been corresponding with Calvin and expressing his non-trinitarian beliefs. Calvin pretended to be intrigued and interested in His ideas and invited Servetus to come visit Him in Geneva to discuss them in person. Servetus, travelling incognito, was arrested when he stopped to attend a church service in a town outside of Geneva. He was then turned over to the Roman authorities who burned Him at the stake. He was told by church authorities that his death would be quick if He recanted his non-trinitarian beliefs. He refused and his executioners therefore carried out His immolation over green wood that kept him alive longer to die a slow torturous death. He was literally slow roasted, but he never recanted his beliefs. He was a true martyr of the faith.
Your authority for the bolded statement? Standard history would read more like:The Geneva Council voted to condemn Servetus for heresy and called for his execution. The Swiss churches of Berne, Zurich, Basle, and Schaffhausen encouraged this move. Although Calvin insisted with the rest that Servetus must die, he urged that in mercy Servetus be executed by the sword, not by burning, but the Council rejected the suggestion. It was quarreling with Calvin at that time over the city government. Calvin and reformer William Farel spent hours with Servetus trying to turn him back from his lapses from commonly accepted Christian doctrine, but Servetus stood fast to his principles.
On this day, October 27, 1553, Geneva burned Michael Servetus at the stake for blasphemy and heresy. In the flames, Michael called repeatedly on Jesus, the Son of God for mercy.
From Michael Servetus Burned for Heresy - 1501-1600 Church History Timeline
But I agree with it in principle, it is like water in it's 3 different physical states - ice, water and steam.
But can the same quantity of water exist in those three different physical states at once? If you have a gallon of water and you freeze it, what happens to the steam? I realize that there is no such thing as a perfect analogy, but to me, this one is far, far, far from perfect.
One of the few theologies that survived the Protestant Reformation.
But I agree with it in principle, it is like water in it's 3 different physical states - ice, water and steam.
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Originally Posted by Katzpur
But can the same quantity of water exist in those three different physical states at once? If you have a gallon of water and you freeze it, what happens to the steam? I realize that there is no such thing as a perfect analogy, but to me, this one is far, far, far from perfect.
There may be some psychological effect that makes them feel better.
It might be the thought of a braided cord which is not easily broken?
Because of Servetus’ last book, Calvin summoned the Catholic Inquisitors to arrest him in Vienne, France. They promptly did so on April 4, 1553. But the doctor outwitted his captors and escaped. Later, he headed for northern Italy where he planned to practice medicine among new groups of anti-Trinitarians, many of them Anabaptist
Unfortunately for Servetus, it seems that he could not avoid traveling through Geneva. And mostly on account of Master Jean Calvin, Geneva had strict Sabbatical laws. One of them was the mandatory requirement of church attendance on Sunday.Servetus apparently feared arrest if discovered breaking the “Christian Sabbath.” So he took a calculated, but foolish, risk. On August 13th, 1553, he attended the large church where Calvin pastored and preached every Sunday. A parishioner uncannily recognized the doctor and quickly informed the Master. Calvin hailed the heresy-hunting Inquisitors to arrest Servetus again, this time charging him as an escaped prisoner
Servetus was executed on the Plateau of Champel just outside Geneva during midday on October 27, 1553. M. Hillar relates the scene as follows: “No cruelty was spared on Servetus as his stake was made of bundles of the fresh wood of live oak still green, mixed with the branches still bearing leaves. On his head a straw crown was placed sprayed with sulfur. He was seated on a log, with his body chained to a post with an iron chain, his neck was bound with four or five turns of a thick rope. This way Servetus was being fried at a slow fire for about a half hour before he died. To his side were attached copies of his [last] book” by a chain.
Marion Hillar is a contemporary authority on Servetus as well as Calvin's role in the execution of Servetus. Hillar alleges:
“Calvin in fact established a dictatorship, becoming a civil and religious dictator. Geneva was nicknamed Protestant Rome and Calvin himself—the Pope of the Reformation.... Calvin introduced an absolute control of the private life of every citizen. In his doctrine every man was a \wretched being not worthy of existence, a sinner and evil doer, ‘trash’ (une ordure\). He instituted a ‘spiritual police’ to supervise constantly all Genevese and they were subjected to periodical inspections in their households by the ‘police des moeurs.’ Anything that smacked of pleasure—music, song, laughter, theater, amusement, dancing, playing cards, even skating—was declared ‘paillardise’ and severely punished. Calvin managed to destroy the normal bonds between people and simple decency inducing them to spy upon each other. His method of intimidation and terror was so refined that it involved control of every petty activity.” From: THE RESTITUTION OF JESUS CHRIST/SERVETUS THE EVANGELICAL
The details of my original post may not match this account exactly, but the divergence is minimal. It was Catholic inquisitors that arrested Him, though the city council with Calvin at the head tried him.
My point which still stands, was the murderous and unmerciful way in which adherence to the Trinity was enforced.
No. The doctrine of the Trinity came about based on what God revealed about himself in the Bible. It is not polytheistic in origin, it is not based on Greek mythology. It is what God has revealed about himself.
Did YHVH tell Moses he was "I AM THAT I AM", or did he say "I AM 3 PERSONS"? How about the 10 Commandments. "HEAR ME ISRAEL, THE LORD THY GOD IS ONE AND THERE IS NO OTHER BESIDE ME."
At times God has given people visions where he uses images of physical objects as a teaching method to explain things that are spiritual and invisible. Christ also used parables about meat and drink or sheep and shepards or mustard plants or wind. All of these physical things he used to describe non physical spiritual concepts so we could understand heaven.
The Catholic Church in Rome did something similar. But rather than use physical things to describe heavenly things, they instead used a concept of pagan theology called a triune godhead, to describe the Deity of the monotheistic God YHVH. Jer.10:2 Learn not the way of the heathen, for their customs are vain...... This scripture mentions Christmas trees which is another pagan tradition the RCC adopted, along with many other.
Jesus was a Jew, sent to the Jews, because salvation is of the Jews, not the Romans. The original Christian church in Jerusalem did not teach the trinity. Are you a human being? yes. Is God a spirit being? yes. Can you be a father or mother? yes. Is God a Father? yes. Can you be a son or daughter? yes. Can God be a son? yes.(God manifested in the son) Are you 3 different people? No. So why do you think God is?
God made man in his image. Man does not have 3 personalities. Man is not 3 people in 1 being. God creates order out of chaos. God is not the author of confusion.
Last edited by Daingerfield; 11-12-2016 at 05:57 PM..
How can God be a son when the God of the Bible is un-created from everlasting - Psalm 90:2
Father and son are Not equals, but in a family it is the brothers who are the equals.
What I believe:
There is no God the Son, but there is a Son of God. The Son of God, in the beginning (Creation), proceeded forth from the Father (created from God's Eternal Spirit). Then the Father created everything else through, by and for the Son. Without the Son nothing was created. The Father IS Spirit (Holy Ghost) not Father and H.G., 2 separate persons. Jesus being a son has a separate personality just like humans and angels. We are in Christ and Christ is in God. Christ is Mediator between God and man. Jesus is God manifested (revealed) in human flesh. Jesus could not do miracles of himself but God worked THROUGH him. If you look at Jesus you see a man, but if you look beyond the veil of flesh you find God. That is my understanding. Search for yourself and see if you agree.
The details of my original post may not match this account exactly, but the divergence is minimal. It was Catholic inquisitors that arrested Him, though the city council with Calvin at the head tried him.
My point which still stands, was the murderous and unmerciful way in which adherence to the Trinity was enforced.
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You have not provided ANY authority for your assertion that it was Roman authorities that executed Servetus, and your acknowledgement that the Geneva City authorities conducted the trial should clue you that you are suffering a misunderstanding. If I am wrong, please cite an authority that states the it was Roman authorities that executed him rather than a lot of extraneous chaff to no purppose.
How can the heavenly resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus be God when he has a God over him ? - Rev 3:12
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Because he claims to be in Rev 1:18. He doesn't claim in 3:12 that God is God above him. He uses the phrase "my God'. That doesn't mean in the context that he is not God and God is.
Jesus is called “god” in the Bible? Yes, and so are Satan, Moses, the spiritual leaders of Israel, and pagan deities. It was common at that time to call God's representatives “god,” (elohim/theos) so Jesus may be referred to as "god," but He is not capital G "God." Using the capital G in God is an English convention and it is the translators choice. There is no capitalization in the original languages. Jesus is never called Almighty God. the word "god" (elohim/theos) means "mighty one" and when Jesus calls His Father my God or my "mighty one," he is identifying Him as someone mightier than Himself. He also says "the Father is greater than I. There is no mitigating the "context" to mean anything other than subordination. Jesus has a God who is greater than himself. They are most certainly not equals in any sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
Why are only 2 thrones mentioned instead of 3 thrones at Revelation 3:21 ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Because Jesus is going to sit on the right hand of God.
The term "seated at the right hand" refers to the person sitting there to be the first among ones subordinates. It means the same as the term "right hand man" or as "captain Picard" would say, "Number one." Jesus is His fathers second in command. He is His right hand man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
Who did Jesus teach to worship at John 4:23-24 ? ______
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
God.
There are various forms of worship in the Bible. You might want to do a study on this. The highest form of worship is reserved for our creator the Father. Jesus is not to be given this form of worship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
And in v. 18 he says he is the Alpha and Omega, Almighty God. The one who died and is now alive. If you want to suggest that it was not referring to Jesus, tell me when Almighty God died.
He says he is the first and the last in a different sense than the father. He is the "first" born from the dead, and He is the "last" Adam or Man, but He is not the Almighty creator. It is not Jesus speaking in verse 18 when the term Almighty is used. Jesus stopped speaking at the end of verse 17 when He said Amen. You are mixing two consecutive but separate verses and confounding the meaning of the two separate passages by confusing the two persons as one. Jesus is not the Almighty.
Last edited by Nivram; 11-13-2016 at 10:41 AM..
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