Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Lets see. Mark, apparently a Syrian Christian, was not a witness to the events he described, wrote 40 years after the fact, and told one story. Matthew copied about 800 of Marks 860 verses many verbatim.
By the furthest stretch of the imagination can you think that either of these reports were accurate and complete? or even historical; that is, reported what actually happened?
It's far more interesting to view the subtle changes in verses that are copied from Mark by Matthew and Luke. One can observe a change from the harsh and sometimes grating words of Mark to reflect a later tradition that began to view Jesus differently:
Quote:
3. Mark’s Harder Readings
There are several passages in Mark which paint a portrait of Jesus (or the disciples, etc.) that could be misunderstood. These passages have been altered in either Matthew or Luke or both on every occasion. It is the conviction of many NT scholars that this category is a very strong blow to the Griesbach hypothesis—and one which has not been handled adequately by Matthean prioritists.29 Among the several possible passages which scholars have noticed, the following are particularly impressive to me. Still, the cumulative effect is what makes the biggest impression.
(1) Mark 6:5-6/Matt 13:58—“he could not do any mighty work there except . . . ”/“he did not do many works there . . . because of their unbelief.” On this text Farmer comments: “the passage offers no clear indication that . . . Matthew has ‘toned down’ a phrase in Mark which ‘might cause offense or suggest difficulties’.”30 But this ignores the verbs used, for Mark suggests inability on Jesus’ part, while Matthew simply indicates unwillingness (οὐκ ἐδύνατο vs. οὐκ ἐποίησεν). Cf. also Mark 1:32-34/Matt 8:16/Luke 4:40 for a similar text.
(2) Mark 10:18/Matt 19:17/Luke 18:19—“Good teacher . . . Why do you call me good?” (in Mark and Luke) vs. “Teacher . . . Why do you ask me about what is good?” (Matthew). The text, as Mark has it, might imply that Jesus denies his own deity. It is apparent that Luke did not read it that way, but Matthew probably did. Indeed, in the Holtzmann/Streeter view, Matthew and Luke copied Mark independently of one another. Thus what might offend one would not necessarily offend the other.31
(3) Mark 3:5/Luke 6:10—“he looked around at them with anger/he looked around on them all.” Matthew omits the verse entirely, though he includes material both before and after it (12:12-13). That Luke would omit a statement regarding Jesus’ anger is perfectly understandable.
(4) Mark 1:12/Matt 4:1/Luke 4:1—“the Spirit drove him into the desert” (Mark)/ “Jesus was led into the desert by the Spirit” (Matthew and Luke). Mark uses the very harsh ἐκβάλλω, while Matthew and Luke use (ἀν)άγω, a much gentler term, to describe the Spirit’s role in bringing Jesus to the desert for temptation.
(5) Mark 8:24-26—the different stages of a particular healing story, omitted in Matthew and Luke. The blind man is partially healed the first time by Jesus, then fully the second time. This is the only healing story in the synoptic gospels which required two stages. Perhaps this was the reason for its omission in Matthew/Luke, or perhaps it was the fact that saliva was used as the means of healing.32
(6) Mark 3:20-21—The statement that Jesus’ mother and brothers tried to seize him because they said that he was insane (ἐξέστη). Neither Matthew nor Luke have this verse, apparently because it would cast aspersions on Jesus’ mother and brothers.
I think you would enjoy the site and its comparison of numerous problems that an honest believer is happy to accept and understand.
Many scholars think Mark may have been a teenager during Jesus' ministry and picked up stories from some of the disciples. Luke and Matthew were later authors who relied on Mark's "straight from the horse's mouth" tales that he recorded. And Mark is written in the crudest style of that time indicating a less polished individual that gave what the more polished Matthew and Luke "cleaned" up before including certain of Mark's verses in their gospel.
where you at, jg, you just do a hit and run, here, or what
ever notice people only usually answer the questions they have a sermon prepared for? lol
i do it, too. someone please call me on it, if i do that.
reminds me ezackly of when i was in high-pressure sales. steer them towards questions you have a pitch prepared for, and have some obfuscating non-answer ready for the questions that show you got no idea; preferably with a subtle hint that they don't know what they are asking, they are asking it wrong or something.
Sorry - I didn't understand the point or relevance of your response -- What are you asking?
The greatest and worst biblical contradiction is the character of Jesus who proclaims love and in the next moment threatens those who do not love him back with "outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". He heals people with one hand and curses the fig tree (whose only guilt was that it was not time for fruit) with the other. It's almost like he had a split personality or something.
Weeping and gnashing of teeth means you have your salvation in the outer court because you made a willing choice to remain a gentile when the thing that gives abundant life is a marriage to a Jew. Gentiles receive a betrothal that redeems them into Israel but instead of seeking the ways of their husband, they chose to remain as they are, gentiles, and so they are sent by their own choice to the court of gentiles and there is salvation there, but they weep and gnash their teeth over what they themselves rejected and these are the ways of Jerusalem, and so it was they who chose not to enter the city and they are like dogs without the city and yet there they are alive with their salvation but not being able to enter into the city.
We are sternly warned to look at the design of the Tabernacle in 3 sections because it is a duplicate of what the kingdom of heaven is.
Inside the Holy place there is a menorah whose light is very extreme because it is the light of God and the light of the outer court in comparison to the light of God in the Holy place, the outer court derives it's name,'' Outer Darkness.''
This isn't hell, it is the outer court where there is salvation at the alter of burnt offerings, and we are shown the people cast in the outer court in many ways, and many books where some come to recline with Abraham and Isaac and then are escorted out of that higher zoe kingdom.
But what is it to a man or a beast if he has lived a wonderful life and then goes to dust?
God owes him nothing.
What is it to the man or the beast if he sees another beast who becomes something greater than a beast or a man when he himself did not?
Weeping and gnashing of teeth means you have your salvation in the outer court because you made a willing choice to remain a gentile when the thing that gives abundant life is a marriage to a Jew. Gentiles receive a betrothal that redeems them into Israel but instead of seeking the ways of their husband, they chose to remain as they are, gentiles, and so they are sent by their own choice to the court of gentiles and there is salvation there, but they weep and gnash their teeth over what they themselves rejected and these are the ways of Jerusalem, and so it was they who chose not to enter the city and they are like dogs without the city and yet there they are alive with their salvation but not being able to enter into the city.
We are sternly warned to look at the design of the Tabernacle in 3 sections because it is a duplicate of what the kingdom of heaven is.
Inside the Holy place there is a menorah whose light is very extreme because it is the light of God and the light of the outer court in comparison to the light of God in the Holy place, the outer court derives it's name,'' Outer Darkness.''
This isn't hell, it is the outer court where there is salvation at the alter of burnt offerings, and we are shown the people cast in the outer court in many ways, and many books where some come to recline with Abraham and Isaac and then are escorted out of that higher zoe kingdom.
But what is it to a man or a beast if he has lived a wonderful life and then goes to dust?
God owes him nothing.
What is it to the man or the beast if he sees another beast who becomes something greater than a beast or a man when he himself did not?
There is a reason that some see no contradiction in Scripture ... while others see only contradiction - Yet both are looking at the same Scripture/Bible and presentation of God in Christ:
1 Cor 2:12-16
"What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ."
... of course, that's only what Scripture says on the matter of those who constantly see only the "foolishness of Scripture." Wake-up sleepy-heads. The contradiction is in you.
Amen, and this is good scripture in teaching the believer in how discerning those who lack the Holy Spirit in their lives .
As the scripture teach it is the inspired word of God but when ppl continue to try and make it out to be a lie in stating that the word of God is contradicting itself, it's not inspired by God is just what the scripture warn us about these individuals, "These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit." (Jude 19 NASB)and that,"This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic."(James 3:15 NASB).... Amen !
Jesus said, "If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son."(1 John 5:9) and that is just what those who walk in the Spirit will do, no such thing as contradictions for those who believe God will be in agreement with God's will in/with His written word whether they may understand it at the time, it will be understood in its appointed time .
And they'll be in agreement with the disciples in what they have proclaimed in the scripture about the gospel of theirs and our Lord Jesus Christ, regardless if they did not word their testimony exactly the same, amen !
As these men of God, called by God had come from different places in life, different education, different personalities, and processed their experience differently as individuals when they walked and talked with Jesus !
That is what is so wonderful is that we get to read their points of view, coming to an understanding of what it is like in walking with Jesus . Yet, everything they testified about all came from a heart believing the same in what Jesus spoke and taught them and it just was processed than worded according to the different personalities, yet their testimonies all meant the same even though they are different individuals with their own personalities , get it !
This debating in concerning the scripture is absolutely ridiculous and like I've said many times when they face God's Throne their going to here a completely different version (story) than what they proclaimed in believing and spoke out loud proudly to the world and argued with the believer !
This is just what God thinks about their interpretations , Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.(1 Corinthians 1:20-24 NASB)
So we see, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, “He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness”;1 Corinthians 3:19 (NASB) and that is just what He has done in this thread, it is so obvious !
What is the ultimate importance and yet has eternal value ?
It is that Jesus revealed, taught and promised the role of the Spirit in the life of the believer is very important .
1. He is our Helper whom the Father will send in Jesus name,
2. He will abide with us forever,
3. He will lead us into all truth, as He is the Spirit of Truth,
4. He proceeds from the Father, testifying about Jesus to our hearts,
5. He will teach us all things,
6. He will bring back everything to our remembrance that Jesus speaks to us .
So it is that without Him we can do nothing, absolutely nothing !
Those who are trying to proclaim that the word of God contradicts itself is not inspired by God and only reveals the foolishness of the natural man (flesh) at its best and proof of the lack of the Spirit in the life .
Scripture Reference to Jesus' very words, "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. (John 14:16-17 (NASB)
“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,. John 15:26 (NASB)
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. (John 14:26 (NASB)
Repeat:
The absence of a life filled with the Spirit is why ppl see nothing but un-truth, contradictions and claim the scripture is not inspired by God, actually they're denying the Father who is the One that has inspired all of this, that is what is written in the Bible for us to know .
Ppl lacking the Spirit filled life that Jesus promised they therefore can not see nor hear with their spiritual eyes and ears nor experience the presence of God .
For the testimony of the Spirit in those who walk in the Spirit is that, "whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: (1 John 2:5 NASB)
These ppl are not ppl of God nor are they called by God, but only here to spread lies and casting fault, blame upon God's truth only to try to bring doubt and unbelief to all, amen !
Weeping and gnashing of teeth means you have your salvation in the outer court because you made a willing choice to remain a gentile when the thing that gives abundant life is a marriage to a Jew. Gentiles receive a betrothal that redeems them into Israel but instead of seeking the ways of their husband, they chose to remain as they are, gentiles, and so they are sent by their own choice to the court of gentiles and there is salvation there, but they weep and gnash their teeth over what they themselves rejected and these are the ways of Jerusalem, and so it was they who chose not to enter the city and they are like dogs without the city and yet there they are alive with their salvation but not being able to enter into the city.
We are sternly warned to look at the design of the Tabernacle in 3 sections because it is a duplicate of what the kingdom of heaven is.
Inside the Holy place there is a menorah whose light is very extreme because it is the light of God and the light of the outer court in comparison to the light of God in the Holy place, the outer court derives it's name,'' Outer Darkness.''
This isn't hell, it is the outer court where there is salvation at the alter of burnt offerings, and we are shown the people cast in the outer court in many ways, and many books where some come to recline with Abraham and Isaac and then are escorted out of that higher zoe kingdom.
But what is it to a man or a beast if he has lived a wonderful life and then goes to dust?
God owes him nothing.
What is it to the man or the beast if he sees another beast who becomes something greater than a beast or a man when he himself did not?
Actually, the ONLY God is a later interpretation of Scripture. The earliest Yahweh worshipers certainly believed that other gods existed. Multiple stories about this abound in Scripture, including even the plagues on Egypt by Moses. These were the gods that the Hebrew myth of plagues were sent to show that Yahweh was greater.
The Jews in captivity in Egypt did not worship the gods of Egypt. What evidence do you have that the plagues is a myth?
Quote:
For example, the plague of the Nile turning to blood was to show that Yahweh controlled the Nile, not Isis, whose tears for her slain brother (and husband), Osiris, were believed to cause the Nile to flood every year. But Yahweh was greater, and could do what He wished with the Nile. Another was the plague of frogs, as Egyptians worshiped Heqet, the frog god (part of Egyptian fertility ideas). Yahweh showed His power over Heqet by "overproducing" frogs and thereby showing Yahweh to be the one in control of fertility.
What Yahweh did, showed He is superior to man-made gods.
Quote:
The idea that there are no other gods developed later.
No it didn't. That there is only one God comes from Deut 6:4
Quote:
In fact, Judaism and Muhammadanism reject Christianity's claim to be monotheistic because of its adoption of the Trinity doctrine.
Their rejection does not make it wrong.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
