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This is such a tiresome argument. EVERYTHING we experience is the product of brain chemicals!!! To pretend that only spiritual experiences are the product of brain chemicals is just silly not to mention stupid!! We would not exist or have ANY experiences without them. So stop pretending it is some devastating argument against spiritual experiences. It isn't!
This is such a tiresome argument. EVERYTHING we experience is the product of brain chemicals!!! To pretend that only spiritual experiences are the product of brain chemicals is just silly not to mention stupid!! We would not exist or have ANY experiences without them. So stop pretending it is some devastating argument against spiritual experiences. It isn't!
And per Jesus' promise, because you believe in Jesus you now possess the power to do even greater things than raising people from the dead, right Mystic?
Per Jesus' promise! Am I right or wrong?
Mystic, just give me a simple "Yes, you are right" or "No, you are wrong".
The getting serious with God seems to be a potter and clay scenario - some clay is used to make noble pots, with all their facets and grandeur, and some is used to make ignoble - cheap, practical and well used. The difference between the two feels vast, but it's still clay, and He is still the potter.
For Mother's day I bought my wife a nice mug from Sainsbury's (a store in UK). It said 'I'm yours' on one side, and 'you're mine' on the other, with a picture of a heart on it. A week later, she got me one of the other mugs from the same range, that said 'you float my boat', with an image of a boat on it.
The handles broke off both mugs within a couple of weeks. ...but we use them.
This is such a tiresome argument. EVERYTHING we experience is the product of brain chemicals!!! To pretend that only spiritual experiences are the product of brain chemicals is just silly not to mention stupid!! We would not exist or have ANY experiences without them. So stop pretending it is some devastating argument against spiritual experiences. It isn't!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
And per Jesus' promise, because you believe in Jesus you now possess the power to do even greater things than raising people from the dead, right Mystic?
Per Jesus' promise! Am I right or wrong?
Mystic, just give me a simple "Yes, you are right" or "No, you are wrong".
I can't answer your question, Thrill. I believe in Jesus NOT because of what the Bible says He promised. I believe in Him because the descriptions of His character and consciousness match perfectly the consciousness I encountered in deep meditation. Any and all other beliefs ABOUT Him are just part of the existing narrative but have little impact on me. My certainty stems from the encounters and the perfect agape love He is described as possessing even through scourging and crucifixion. Once I experienced it, all doubt was erased. All else is the product of human vanity and hubris IMO.
These are the kinds of responses from apologists I always get: You're ignorant; you don't know what you're talking about; You're a faith-wrecker; what do you know"---everything but a simple direct answer to a simple direct question. If patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, then obviously mindless attacks are the last refuge of a fundamentalist.
What is all that?
More blather and I'm no closer to an answer to my question.
Okay, I am familiar with the former and latter rains. I I can somewhat grasp this theory that the Holy Spirit came in the former rains and we are waiting the latter rains of the end times and the appearance of Jesus.
This would basically mean the Holy Spirit is not on earth now as he has gone back to heaven to await the time when he will be directed by the Father to bring the latter rains of a blessing being poured on men of faith when old men will dream dreams, etc.
And if the Spirit is not on earth then he cannot lead men to Jesus as per "No man can come to me except the Spirit draws him" John 6:44 So this again would serve to support that if the Holy Spirit is not present on earth then indeed it's just chemical reactions that Age Enduring is referring to that give us that spiritual "high" we attribute to an indwelling the Holy Spirit, except there's no Holy Spirit to indwell us.
Exactly right. If Jesus' words are true then I would be a believer. Let's examine the words
So how do we define "whoever'? It means "anyone who", right? "Anyone who believes in me...."
How many of you in here believe in Jesus?
Because if you believe in Jesus, then per his promise in John 6:44 you will do the same things Jesus did, right?
Jesus raised people from the dead and now because you are a believer in Jesus then you now possess the power Jesus possessed to raise people from the dead, right?
Am I right or wrong??
And per Jesus' promise, because you believe in Jesus you now possess the power to do even greater things than raising people from the dead, right?
Per Jesus' promise! Am I right or wrong?
Someone just give me a simple "Yes, you are right" or "No, you are wrong".
If Jesus' promise is good and I am right then we should see believers in here raising the dead, right or wrong? How many believers in here have raised the dead lately?
But if Jesus' promise is not good then believers would not be raising the dead because they would have no power to raise the dead. Again I ask, "How many believers in here have raised the dead lately?" If you say "None, Thrill" then only two choices remain: either you are not believers in Jesus OR Jesus' promise in John 6:44 is no good. There can be no other choices.
That's the simple truth, folks and I know apologists will hit be with page-long lists of excuses why Jesus' promise is good BUT believers don't have the power to raise the dead. But anyone with mental faculties will see right through the charade--that it is just excuse making, just as I have been saying all along.
Because he was going to the father to send the Holy Spirit, that Holy spirit allowed them to do those great miracles but only as long as. the spirit stayed. It did not stay, and it departed for good reason...........But no, nobody can do the works because the spirit no longer remains. Having said that, we are left with a way to get an annointing, and with the promise of a second rain.
I can't answer your question, Thrill. I believe in Jesus NOT because of what the Bible says He promised. I believe in Him because the descriptions of His character and consciousness match perfectly the consciousness I encountered in deep meditation. Any and all other beliefs ABOUT Him are just part of the existing narrative but have little impact on me. My certainty stems from the encounters and the perfect agape love He is described as possessing even through scourging and crucifixion. Once I experienced it, all doubt was erased. All else is the product of human vanity and hubris IMO.
OMG!
Finally! FINALLY.....I get an honest direct answer to my question....not the pointless blather that Age Enduring spouts just to dodge the question by turning the attention onto my faithlessness instead of dealing with the question I ask!
Mystic, you're a decent Christian. I cannot say the same about Age Enduring and some of the others because they wouldn't have the decency or the courage to answer as you just did. Respect, respect, respect!
So a person can be a believer in Jesus and be a good Christian without acknowledging or having the ability to utilize the power that Jesus conferred on believers to do greater miracles than he did. All right.
I respect that admission tremendously. And I tried to rep you for your honesty but as usual the system said, "You must spread the reputation around..." so it seems I've been banned in the "reputation dept".
The covenant has been broken, the covenant that Jesus brought, "I will make a new Covenant with Ephraim and Judah.''
''I will put my law in their hearts.''
This remains but the covenant that Jesus made Ephraim and Judah one has been broken and it remains to the gentiles to fix, being that the gentiles are the ones who left, the ones who called the Torah a strange thing and then separated from Judah.
Any gentiles who takes it upon himself to fix the broken covenant recives an annointing, and this is why we have the parables of the ten virgins. The wise virgins are those who fixed the covenant with their own hand, that they should become one with Judah in that they went out and found a needy Jew and began to serve that Jew in order to fix the covenant that Jesus brought when he came as the messenger of the covenant making Jews and Gentiles one. The gentiles who take it upon themselves to fix this covenant has found an extra vessel and they see to the needs of a needy Jew like their own family, thus fixing the covenant which makes Jew and gentile, one, and having obtained this extra vessel, they continue to fill it with oil.
Just as Isaiah 66 says, the gentile who spends his own time and money to get a Jew back to Israel will be chosen as a priest of God, and as a priest, he recieves an annointing.
I think about that all the time Queen, I know the chemicals in my brain has been changed so much so that I am considered damaged products.
But maybe it's like that Lucy movie and the chemicals in your brain change and
open up a part of your mind to perceive something you wouldn't have otherwise heard or seen? Maybe the unused portion IS heaven.
No 'maybe' about it.
(Lucy...one of my favorite movies.)
Yes exactly...Whenever I have had Divine experiences (no drugs)..I have described them as,
"It's like the folds of my brain have opened and some chemical has squirted in there!"
Oh, yeah...Kingdom of Heaven?....dormant, sleeping parts of the brain are all of a sudden activated!
Why? I dunno...was it my work (desire and focus) or was it in my DNA, so meant to 'be'?
What connected me to this altered state of bliss/Heaven/indwelling of the HS?....I call it Grace
and position myself for MORE!
Queen? That would be 'princess'....daughter of a King.
No 'maybe' about it.
(Lucy...one of my favorite movies.)
Yes exactly...Whenever I have had Divine experiences (no drugs)..I have described them as,
"It's like the folds of my brain have opened and some chemical has squirted in there!"
Oh, yeah...Kingdom of Heaven?....dormant, sleeping parts of the brain are all of a sudden activated!
Why? I dunno...was it my work (desire and focus) or was it in my DNA, so meant to 'be'?
What connected me to this altered state of bliss/Heaven/indwelling of the HS?....I call it Grace
and position myself for MORE!
Queen? That would be 'princess'....daughter of a King.
LOL, I guess I had it in my head that I was speaking to Mighty Queen, meh, both of yas angels, so you can see where I messed up, both of you blind me with that blinding light.
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"Anyone who believes in me...." 
