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Millennialism is still (and historically be held as) shown itself to be the heresy that it is because they attempt to predict the return in some manner and also they claim Christ comes to set have an earthly rule instead of being the Judge of all nations.
# 4 has always been the teaching of scriptures.
And because of such, millennialism has been categorically rejected.
The Augsburg Confession alludes to the origin of this error
Luther held the position that Millennialism is a heresy (sermon preached in 1539)
John Calvin wrote that the doctrine of the millenarians is a "fiction too puerile to require or deserve refutation"
The reasons are obvious:
The Bible has the singular return ... "Day of the Lord", not a multiple returns.
According to 1 Thessalonians 4:15ff, when Jesus returns he will rouse and raise all the dead (Daniel 12:2, John 5:28,29).
1 Thessalonians 4 tells us that believers will rise to meet Christ in the air, not prior to, but on the last day
Matthew 24:30, all the nations of the earth “will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.”
On that day, according to Revelation 1:7, “every eye will see him.”
As a theologian some time ago wrote:
Millennialism is to "outright deny the church's hope of Christ's only return to judgement and
those who transport it into the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations. They belong to the scoffers who, Peter warned, would come, 'scoffing and following their own evil desires'
(2 Peter 3:3).
Twinspin, the Bible does not teach amillennialism (no millennium). A literal reading of the Old and New Testaments quite clearly shows that there will be a literal, physical kingdom on the earth after the Tribulation.
I will quote three sources from the early church which establish that the pre-millennial view was held by the church in the first and second centuries A.D., though not by everyone.
While according to Justin Martyr (c. A.D. 100-165) there were many who rejected the pre-millennial view in his day, he himself and many others held to that view.
1.) Quoting Justin Martyr in his Dialogue with Trypho
CHAPTER LXXX -- THE OPINION OF JUSTIN WITH REGARD TO THE REIGN OF A THOUSAND YEARS. SEVERAL CATHOLICS REJECT IT.
And Trypho to this replied, "I remarked to you sir, that you are very anxious to be safe in all respects, since you cling to the Scriptures. But tell me, do you really admit that this place, Jerusalem, shall be rebuilt; and do you expect your people to be gathered together, and made joyful with Christ and the patriarchs, and the prophets, both the men of our nation, and other proselytes who joined them before your Christ came? or have you given way, and admitted this in order to have the appearance of worsting us in the controversies?"
Then I answered, "I am not so miserable a fellow, Trypho, as to say one thing and think another. I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and[believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise. Moreover, I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemous, atheistical, and foolish. But that you may know that I do not say this before you alone, I shall draw up a statement, so far as I can, of all the arguments which have passed between us; in which I shall record myself as admitting the very same things which I admit to you. For I choose to follow not men or men's doctrines, but God and the doctrines[delivered] by Him. For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this[truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly consider it, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genist , Meristae,Gelilaeans, Hellenists, Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews(do not hear me impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are[only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.
2.) The Didache (The Teaching) teaches the pre-millennial view as well. The Didache is dated to between A.D. 50-120.
Chapter 16. Watchfulness; the Coming of the Lord. Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you are not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead -- yet not of all, but as it is said: "The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him." Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.
3.) Irenaeus of Lyons (c. A.D. 130-202), Against Heresies, Chapter XXX
4. But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But now as "he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition," as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that "many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
Regardless of the views which may have been held by Calvin and Luther on the matter, and set forth in the Augsburg Confession, the fact of the matter is that writers in the first and second centuries show quite clearly that the pre-millennial view was in fact held by the early church, though not by everyone.
I created a thread about a year ago just why Trump had to be the next president from just his name.
He's not the Anti-Christ, it is that his name screams the last Trump, his name hearlds the coming of Rosh Hashannah and the feast of Trumpets bringing in the feast of Tabernacles after the Obamanation lol.
YUP, don't let it be said that God is without a sense of humor.
thrillobyte, Paul (most likely speaking of himself) went up, as he describes,
the word "clouds" is not used, third heaven is. Your analogy is off, and
you changed the subject also.
Those types of preachers you mention are of no consequence, just
another example of Protestants Gone Wild.
The BIG problem with taking your approach of Paul teaching that believers will bodily literal fly into the skies is we must then acknowledge that Paul and the apostles believed the rapture would happen in their lifetime. Paul says "Then WE (you and I) which are alive and remaining...." John said, "For the time is short..." It was all based on Jesus' botched prophecies, to Caiaphias "I am. And you, Caiaphas shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and majesty..." and to his disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled."
Of course Jesus never returned in his generation as all the apostles and Paul believed he would and so Christian leaders were left in a conundrum: "What do we do about Jesus not returning as he prophesied he would????" "I know, we'll make it a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled." And that' how you and the others fell for it.
I created a thread about a year ago just why Trump had to be the next president from just his name.
He's not the Anti-Christ, it is that his name screams the last Trump, his name hearlds the coming of Rosh Hashannah and the feast of Trumpets bringing in the feast of Tabernacles after the Obamanation lol.
YUP, don't let it be said that God is without a sense of humor.
i'm not arguing about it .
I just thought he made many good points about scriptures about who the antichrist is .. as we watch the world we must watch with as much knowledge as we can . so I was only presenting this .
The BIG problem with taking your approach of Paul teaching that believers will bodily literal fly into the skies is we must then acknowledge that Paul and the apostles believed the rapture would happen in their lifetime. Paul says "Then WE (you and I) which are alive and remaining...." John said, "For the time is short..." It was all based on Jesus' botched prophecies, to Caiaphias "I am. And you, Caiaphas shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and majesty..." and to his disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled."
Of course Jesus never returned in his generation as all the apostles and Paul believed he would and so Christian leaders were left in a conundrum: "What do we do about Jesus not returning as he prophesied he would????" "I know, we'll make it a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled." And that' how you and the others fell for it.
Jesus never promised that He would return in that present generation, even though as far as the church was concerned, He could have returned at that time.
Instead, when after His resurrection the apostles asked Him if it was at that time He would restore the kingdom to Israel, He told them that it wasn't for them to know the times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority (Acts 1:6-7). That left open the possibility that a very long period of time might pass before He returned.
Furthermore, Jesus did not say to His disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled." What He said in Matthew 24:34 was that the generation that saw the signs of which He had been speaking would be the one that would not pass away until all those things took place. And the reference was not to the rapture of the Church, but to His second advent at the end of the Tribulation.
As for Jesus' statement to the members of the Sanhedrin, as recorded in Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62, He was not telling them that He would return in their lifetimes. Nothing about what He said suggests that. Rather, Jesus was looking forward into the future when He would come in judgment, and He was saying that from now on, in the future, they would only see Him when they stood before Him in judgment. They were judging Jesus as He now stood before them, but in the future, He would judge them.
And yes, Paul did teach a literal rapture or catching up of the church which would take place at the same time as the resurrection of the church.
Last edited by Michael Way; 12-02-2016 at 11:16 PM..
Thank you for the rep and lovely message, Matadora. I tried to rep you but the CD system won't allow me to give reps to anyone anymore. I don't know why.
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"I know, we'll make it a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled." 
