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they have bitten into the bible apple thinking it is god. I don't think they have chosen pleroo, I think they have been deceived. But it isn't that simple is it? lol, only if it was that easy, we are a bit more complex. they can choose no other way.
they can not choose now, as you have been shown. due to their brain state they cannot choose now; and they have been given grace in two ways, by the love of your lord. they are not held accountable, for reason you are aware of, and if they chose to be different, they step out into the warm rain of amazing grace. no way to explain that to those that were born in it or will never walk out into it; is there?
that damn ying and yang, positive and negative, energy gradients cause all that see and feel.
So funny. When I saw your name on the thread, I was pretty sure this is what you would say. I agree, AA, I agree. It's not a matter of choice, and that was poor wording on my part. Thanks for saying it. ((hugs))
"True love will triumph in the end—which may or may not be a lie, but if it is a lie, it's the most beautiful lie we have." - John Green
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanokh
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I'd rather have certain truth than the most beautiful thought which might be a lie.
True love will triumph in the end, whether or not - you believe it is a lie.
Be sure you do not condemn yourself or anyone else in the process.
Yes, so repent from your sins and put your trust in Jesus Christ and God will indeed be your salvation pleroo. However if you keep rejecting the offer of the Gospel, the Bible is very clear that whosoever does not believe in Him is condemned already -- outside of Christ your condemnation is certain, and it's only a matter of how much time God gives you in this life, by His grace, until the execution of His righteous judgment upon you.
He does not offer his love to you, he gives it freely without cost.
I do not believe you can do, or say anything - that will change it.
Not to believe what? I began by affirming your statement that Jesus means 'God is salvation' or 'YHWH saves'. But to whom was that name given? To the Son of God that came to earth to save us, it tells us Jesus is the means whereby God saves.
Otherwise how can the term 'salvation' make any sense? Salvation from what exactly? If there was no possibility of going lost, no condemnation for sin, what would we need salvation for? What would we need forgiveness of sin for? And what would we need a Saviour for?
Not to believe what? I began by affirming your statement that Jesus means 'God is salvation' or 'YHWH saves'. But to whom was that name given? To the Son of God that came to earth to save us, it tells us Jesus is the means whereby God saves.
Otherwise how can the term 'salvation' make any sense? Salvation from what exactly? If there was no possibility of going lost, no condemnation for sin, what would we need salvation for? What would we need forgiveness of sin for? And what would we need a Saviour for?
Greetings, Chanokh:
I would like to tie this in with your own thread on "The Difficulty of Salvation', as I believe they are inter-related (many of the threads tend to tie in together).
But this is where it tends to become confusing. Back in the field that night, when the angel of the Lord spoke to those frightened shepherds, and said to them, "Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."
This good news was, indeed, to be proclaimed to the whole world. But you've asked a very critical question. In what sense is He that "Savior", and why was a savior necessary?
In another place we read about this Savior, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21).
So now we see that He had come as the Savior "who would save His people from their sins". How are we to understand this? John (the Baptist) spoke of Him, saying, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
This picture of Jesus as the "Lamb of God" is also very important. We see this mentioned in Acts 8, where the familiar passage in Isaiah 53 is referenced:
Acts 8:26-35
26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
The fact of Christ having been a sacrifice for us cannot be ignored, as the Scriptures make this clear:
Heb 9:26 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Eph 5:2 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
The blood of Christ is referred to as that which secured redemption for us.
Col 1:12-14 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
Ephesians 1:7 says the same thing, but adds:"according to the riches of his grace". So we see both the fact of Christ having died for us, having literally offered Himself as a sacrifice to God on our behalf in order to save us. The reference to His blood must not be overlooked. One more verse along these lines may be seen below:
Acts 20:28 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
We can stop here regarding Christ's sacrifice. He was crucified for us, that we might have eternal life through Him. This is why Paul could say, " For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. This is all that mattered to Paul, as no other message could benefit us.
Sadly, though, there is a verse like 1 Corinthians 1:18, where we read: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
This is not a message that people care to hear. It's much easier to talk about the love of God, which we indeed must emphasize. But we need to understand the depth of God's love as finding its fruition in the cross.
Yes, God in an unspeakable act of love sent His Son to bear the sins of many through His atoning death. Through this we are redeemed. But we had to be redeemed from something, yes? Is there a punishment awaiting us as a result of our sins? Is this what Jesus saved us from? Along with the fact that Jesus came to save us from our sins, and in fact died on the cross for this very purpose, we are instructed to believe on Him in order for this salvation to become effective. Believing on Him is to believe on Him as the only way by which we must be saved. Those who will not believe on Him will not become saved, sad to say.
We read in John 3:36,"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
There is salvation for anyone who will come to God through Christ, believing on Him and trusting in Him, alone, as their only hope before God. But outside of Christ we can have no hope for eternity. And our salvation manifests itself through a belief in Him as the only way to the Father, and this specifically involves His atoning work on our behalf.
The other very important item in our coming to Christ is that we become transformed, we have become a "new creation". So, important evidences such as loving our neighbor as ourselves and living in a way that is pleasing to God, particularly walking humbly before Him and not with pride or arrogance, will be the result of this new life we have in Christ. Many may believe that we can accomplish these things in ourselves, but we cannot. Until God saves us, and gives us a new heart, and puts His Spirit within us, we can only remain slaves to sin. We may give the appearance of living for God in the ways He tells us in Scripture, but it is not out of a love for God. This can only happen if God gives us a "new birth", as we read in John 3. We must first be "born again" (or "born from above"). Please note:
Eph 2:8-10 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Jesus spoke to the Scribes and Pharisees in a very unaccepting way. He said to them:
Matt 23:27-28 27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
He concluded by saying, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Jesus is said to have delivered us from "the wrath to come", and for this we praise God without ceasing. But we must not overlook the fact that we are instructed to believe on Him. Salvation from this wrath to come is only promised to those who will come to Christ, believing in Him and trusting in His saving work as our only hope of reconciliation with God.
It is interesting that Jesus, who would have to be regarded as the perfect preacher and teacher, was not accepted in His message to the masses. In fact, they chose to crucify Him, instead. if His message were so easy to hear and acceptable to all, then He would have been extremely popular and greatly loved and admired. But He came to deliver a message that the majority would not hear, and this tragedy stands true to this very day.
One of the scariest passages in Scripture to me is Rev 6:12-17. Here we read:
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
All those who would think highly of themselves, "trusting in themselves that they were righteous", to use the words of the parable of the Pharisee and the publican, will sadly remain under the wrath of God. God takes sin very seriously.
But in His love and mercy He has made a way for us to escape the punishment we deserve. Through Jesus Christ we can have forgiveness of all of our sins... past, present, and future. And as redeemed individuals we can live a life where we are no longer servants of sin, but servants of God, out of a new love for God which we now have. God's grace truly is "greater than all our sin" (see Romans 5:20).
God's holiness cannot be ignored. He is said to be of "purer eyes than to behold evil, and cannot look on iniquity".
God tells us in 2 Corinthians 5:21 that "He hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him". Only in Christ can we stand righteous before God. Outside of Christ, as John 3:36, the wrath of God yet remains on that individual.
But, again, that good news proclaimed that night to the shepherds still stands for us today. We have a Savior, that "whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life". Jesus has promised that whoever comes to Him He will "in no wise cast out". God is faithful... and merciful... and loving. And he has demonstrated this love in Jesus Christ in a way that literally goes beyond words. May we praise Him for His matchless grace in Jesus Christ, which is truly promised to all who will come to Him through Christ. Grace greater than all our sin? Indeed!!
May God richly bless us all, and may He give us ears to hear His glorious message of salvation through Jesus Christ. (And may you all forgive me for this extremely long post). God bless.
Not to believe what? I began by affirming your statement that Jesus means 'God is salvation' or 'YHWH saves'. But to whom was that name given? To the Son of God that came to earth to save us, it tells us Jesus is the means whereby God saves.
Otherwise how can the term 'salvation' make any sense? Salvation from what exactly? If there was no possibility of going lost, no condemnation for sin, what would we need salvation for? What would we need forgiveness of sin for? And what would we need a Saviour for?
The Israelites got lost,,,,, the salvation Jesus was offering was for Judah to repent and be saved - God chose a people to show who God is to the world, those are the elect people who have been scattered throughout the heaven and earth and are to be gathered. The nations will be blessed by them, through them.
From: 'All of Grace' - Chapter 10 – 'The increase of faith'
Romans 5:6 When we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
"It is written, "Faith cometh by hearing"; therefore hear often. If I earnestly and attentively hear the gospel, one of these days I shall find myself believing that which I hear, through the blessed operation of the Spirit of God upon my mind. Only mind you hear the gospel, and do not distract your mind with either hearing or reading that which is designed to stagger you." – Charles Spurgeon
...Otherwise how can the term 'salvation' make any sense? Salvation from what exactly? If there was no possibility of going lost, no condemnation for sin, what would we need salvation for? What would we need forgiveness of sin for? And what would we need a Saviour for?
Why would you think a requirement for God to heal, make whole, restore, or rescue is to first condemn?
It's like saying a firefighter needs to set people on fire in order to have someone to save.
From: 'All of Grace' - Chapter 10 – 'The increase of faith'
Romans 5:6 When we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
"If you are in despair, you have only to get among God's people, and inquire a little, and you will discover that some of the saints have been equally in despair at times and they will be pleased to tell you how the Lord delivered them. As you listen to one after another of those who have tried the word of God, and proved it, the divine Spirit will lead you to believe." – Charles Spurgeon
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God bless.
