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Are you saying that you hope to God that you are right that most of humanity will suffer ET?
Not at all. I realize that IF I'm right, ET is an unfortunate go-with for unbelievers. That's why we're commanded to bring others along.
What I'm saying is, I hope to God I have found and am following the One Truth. It follows that I hope and pray others find and follow as well, so that nobody should suffer.
Not at all. I realize that IF I'm right, ET is an unfortunate go-with for unbelievers. That's why we're commanded to bring others along.
What I'm saying is, I hope to God I have found and am following the One Truth. It follows that I hope and pray others find and follow as well, so that nobody should suffer.
Well, biblically, you know that most humans will not be saved. Why would you want to be right that ET is true?
Originally Posted by twin.spin "His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
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You have the gall to tell me that I'm trying to distort scripture? You do not and cannot know my intents or the contents of my heart or my character! Why don't you actually argue your point of view, rather than castigating the views of others? Let's here what you believe is the truth of scripture!
Maybe you ought to chill, since the so-called unreadable sentence thta concluded with the scripture verse is referencing cults in general that also hold to some form of millennialism teaching - not to "the contents of my heart or my character!."
When one uses a quote, whether from scripture or or elsewhere to refute the ideas of another, they become synonymous with their own words, so if this is not what you intended to say, then you should choose your quotes more carefully!! And yes, the sentence I spoke of is grammatically undecipherable. I do know what I'm talking about after being grilled my entire life on such.
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I am not a Catholic, and so I do not accept Catholic estimations of what a heresy is, given that they are the most apostate church in existence,
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
As I suspected all along, you actually do what you accuse others of doing.
So much for "You're nobody's judge!"
To accuse with the evidence in view for all to see is not merely accusation, it it justified. Everyone here has read your words, and they speak for themselves. I merely point them out!
If you are going to attempt to turn the tables on someone by using their words against them, you need to reason a bit more logically! Speaking against a belief system (Catholicism) is not being anyone's judge. Anytime a person reasons against the ideas found in a system of thought, they are arguing against the thoughts, not any people, but the Roman Church has been guilty of some of the most heinous crimes in history, so when I speak of apostasy to the ideals of Christ being present in the very highest ranks of Catholicism, I hardly think I am unjustified. They stand guilty in the eyes of all!
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Almost all protestants believe in a form of millenialism whether it be pre-millennialism or post-millennialism.
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
actually not "almost"
Millennialism has long been held as a heresy.
The Augsburg Confession the 17th article alludes to the origin of this error
Luther held the position that Millennialism is a heresy (sermon preached in 1539)
John Calvinwrote that the doctrine of the millenarians is a "fiction too puerile to require or deserve refutation"
Tertullian was an early church father who lived from 150-60 to 225 AD. He wrote:
[Jesus]will come with glory to take the saints to the enjoyment of everlasting life and of the heavenly promises, and to condemn the wicked to everlasting fire, after the resurrection of both these classes shall have happened, together with the restoration of their flesh.
This rule, as it will be proved, was taught by Christ, and raises
amongst ourselves no other questions than those which heresies introduce, and which make men heretics.
Scriptures teach Amillennialism was taught by Christ
As I have already stated in another post, I reject the findings of uninspired men, and stick to what scripture has to say.
Also, scriptures don't teach, people teach! The writers of scripture obviously had specific ideas in mind when they wrote, but it is our Job to determine through diligent study just what it is that they meant. If it were easy to determine the intent of the writers words, we could all just read the book through once and then set it aside and be done with it. This is not the case. So if you want to prove that Amillennialism is what Christ taught, you'll have to work a little bit harder to justify your assertion, and quoting the ideas of uninspired men won't cut it.
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Oh! a Chart. How very helpful. Now I see the light!! Glory halellujah!!!
I had the moral courage to go a step further and deny a god that would torment any human for eternity. With further "research", I found ET to be a false doctrine, but I could not morally worship/believe in a god that sanctioned slavery. I'm shocked a little to see someone who supposedly used critical reasoning become a follower of the biblical God.
Being unfortunate doesn't exempt you from wanting it to be right. Why not just say you hope you are wrong about ET?
Because it doesn't work that way. They go together. I don't "desire" ET to be part of the Truth, but if it is, I am commanded to make disciples of others and bring them along.
To say that I want to be on the right side of God AND for non-believers to go to hell misrepresents my statements and God's desires for us.
Originally Posted by twin.spin 2) "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved,
a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."
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Originally Posted by Nivram 1) My purpose in studying the scriptures is to learn to correctly handle the word of truth, and I assume that is true of most people that put serious effort into studying them.
2)You are setting yourself up as a judge of other believers, and that is well above your pay grade. It also "hurts the faith of those who are listening."
1A: My purpose in studying is to first and foremost premised on learning from theologically correct theologians (really? do you check your writing at all?) who subsequently learned from previous theologically correct theologians and so on and so forth till we eventually go back to those theologians that formulated the Creeds which
"in order to safeguard the apostles’ teaching."
gospel truths taught by the apostles
who based themselves on what Jesus taught. (According to them)
2A: Ever heard of the Bereans? Acts 17:11
I have the same pay scale and rights as they do when it comes to determining who is telling the truth.
Really? Who are the Bereans? Inform me O great one!!
Seriously? The Bereans don't make a very good case for you, given that they were commended for their diligent pursuit of scriptural truth. The Berean's sought the truth in the Hebrew scriptures, not the opinions of men, and no, you are hardly on their pay grade since you place the opinions of men over the truth of scripture. You are certainly not on the pay grade of Christ who is our only judge. The Bereans absolutely did not accept the opinions of men at face value, but instead sought to prove all things through diligent study of scripture! Your God is found in the creeds, not scripture!
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
3) Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
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1)I have not set myself up as anyone's teacher. This is a debate forum where we express our honest understanding of scripture. I don't think this is spreading Gangrene!
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2) So what is it that you propose? Are you going to try to silence anyone that disagrees with your position?
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3) You've done a lot of condemning of us for our eschatological position, and for all your insistence that our position is heresy, I've not heard a thing about what your position is. If your position is so superior, and ours so evil, why do you not speak about what your position is?
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
1A: This forum is not merely gangrene, it's virtually spiritually lethally toxic in most cases.
According to you!!!
Others are full of Gangrene and toxicity, but you O pure one speak for God!
Seriously!! You couldn't possibly be more full of yourself!!!
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
2A: Sound doctrine refutes as well as encourages Titus 1:9. If that silences false teaching like Millennialism then so be it.
Well, but unfortunately I haven't seen any scripture from you that proves your point. So you really haven't silenced anything have you? And who determines sound doctrine? Would that be you? Well then, rain down those spiritual truths upon us O pure and great one. We sure haven't seen it yet!
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
3A: Then do your own research, I have in other OP's.
If you are making an argument now, you need to put up or shut up now. OP's don't cut it. I'm debating you not an OP. Nobody is going to rummage through hundreds of OP's to determine whether you have at some time in the remote past made some valid point. Nobody accepts OP's as an answer to anything!
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
I have no tolerance for false teaching like Millennialism because "Their teaching will spread like gangrene.". In many cases it spreads to other false teachings like (one or more of these) to name a few:
decision theology
OSAS
Baptism is a symbolic gesture rather than a means of Grace
Lord's Supper represents
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I don't have a clue what you mean by any of this, but it sounds pretty over the top. You seem to have an awfully high opinion of yourself up there on God's mountain talking about what you have tolerance for as if you're God's watchdog. Get over yourself! You're nobody's judge!
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
As stated earlier because in Titus 1:9 God teaches
"hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage
others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it."
it's not a matter of an high opinion \ God's watchdog but holding firmly.
Yes it's always a matter of highly estimating self when one sets themselves up as judge over others. You are God's watchdog in your own mind only!!! You have given no evidence that you "hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught" at all, and you have refuted nothing!
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
People like Matthew 4:4 have been explained to why belief in millennium is wrong. When folks like you "don't believe for a minute we are wrong for our beliefs" then there's no other option to a closed mind other than to say
"At the very least people will see for themselves and groan realizing how wrong their millennial heresy teaching was as fast as lightning coming from the east to the west."
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First of all, just exactly who the "Hell" are you quoting here, yourself? Second you've got some grande cojones calling me closed minded after your mudslinging rant. My mind is far from closed, and I don't without provocation attack those who honestly speak on behalf of their true beliefs, even though I think them wrong. There's nothing more closed minded and hateful than thinking your own position to be infallible, and that you have the right to judge others!
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
Really, your mind is far from closed, that's why you "don't believe for a minute we are wrong for our beliefs".
Ah! so your feeble assertion here is that believing your not wrong means that you are not open minded. Really? You believe you're right! Does that mean that you are closed minded? Well, you are, but not because you think your right. You demonstrate closed mindedness because you seem to believe that you can't possibly be wrong, which is pure arrogant closed mindedness.
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
I'm more than in my right to be like that of the pay scale of the Bereans. ( no you're not at all!)
Apparently it's you who " seem to have an awfully high opinion of yourself up there on God's mountain talking" by thinking your exempt from something Paul was not.
No, actually I'm perfectly open to considering the possibility of being wrong, you just haven't proven that I am! I believe I'm right because of diligent study that has lead to the conclusions I hold. If you know I'm wrong, then prove it. You don't get to make assertions that I'm wrong without proving thus is the case, which you have not done.
You need to be clear about what you are implying. What is it that I supposedly think I am exempt from that Paul was not?
[quote=twin.spin;46554560]The reason I stated this way is because it's well known that even cults hold to some form millennial teaching and for them as scriptures teach about those who teach falsely like Millennialism (2 Peter 3 )[/quote]
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Another unreadable sentence!
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
Oh well, like I care at this point..
It is unreadable, and you've made no attempt to clarify it!
If you don't care then why do you continue to respond?
Last edited by Nivram; 12-19-2016 at 02:22 PM..
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