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Old 12-26-2016, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Orange County, California
308 posts, read 260,676 times
Reputation: 49

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Maybe you should research a little better...


Here's the true story:


Exorcism and death


Bishop Josef Stangl (May 1959) who approved the exorcism ordering total secrecy

The priest Ernst Alt, whom they met, on seeing her declared that "she didn't look like an epileptic" and that he did not see her having seizures. Alt believed she was suffering from demonic possession and urged the local bishop to allow an exorcism. In a letter to Alt in 1975, Michel wrote, "I am nothing, everything about me is vanity, what should I do, I have to improve, you pray for me" and also once told him, "I want to suffer for other people...but this is so cruel".In September of the same year, Bishop Josef Stangl granted the priest Arnold Renz permission to exorcise according to the Rituale Romanum of 1614, but ordered total secrecy.[note 1] Renz performed the first session on 24 September. Michel began talking increasingly about "dying to atone for the wayward youth of the day and the apostate priests of the modern church", and she refused to eat towards the end.At this point, her parents stopped consulting doctors on her request and relied solely on the exorcism rites. 67 exorcism sessions, one or two each week, lasting up to four hours, were performed over about ten months in 1975–1976.

On 1 July 1976, Michel died in her home. The autopsy report stated the cause was malnutrition and dehydration because of being in a semi-starvation state for almost a year while the rites of exorcism were performed. She weighed 30 kilograms (68 pounds), suffering broken knees due to continuous genuflections. She was unable to move without assistance, and was reported to have contracted pneumonia.


Prosecution

After an investigation, the state prosecutor maintained that Michel's death could have been prevented even one week before she died.

In 1976, the state charged Michel's parents and priests Ernst Alt and Arnold Renz with negligent homicide.During the case Michel's body was exhumed and tapes were played to the court of the exorcisms over the eleven months which led to her death. The parents were defended by Erich Schmidt-Leichner; their lawyers were sponsored by Church. The state recommended that no involved parties be jailed; instead, the recommended sentence for the priests was a fine, while the prosecution concluded that the parents should be exempt from punishment as they had "suffered enough", which is a criterion in German penal law, cf. § 60 StGB.


Trial

The trial started on 30 March 1978 in the district court and drew intense interest. Before the court, doctors testified that Michel was not possessed, stating that this was a psychological effect because of her strict religious upbringing and her epilepsy, but the doctor Richard Roth, who was asked for medical help by Alt, allegedly told her during the exorcism, that "there is no injection against the devil, Anneliese". Schmidt-Leichner said that the exorcism was legal and that the German constitution protected citizens in the unrestricted exercise of their religious beliefs. The defense played tapes recorded at the exorcism sessions, sometimes featuring what was claimed to be "demons arguing", to assert their claim that Michel was possessed. Both priests said the demons identified themselves as Lucifer, Cain, Judas Iscariot, Hitler, and Nero among others;


they further said that she was finally freed because of the exorcism just before her death.

How convenient ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


The bishop said that he was not aware of her alarming health condition when he approved of the exorcism and did not testify. The accused were found guilty of manslaughter resulting from negligence and were sentenced to six months in jail (which was later suspended) and three years of probation. It was a far lighter sentence than anticipated, but it was more than requested by the prosecution, who had asked that the priests only be fined and that the parents be found guilty but not punished. The Church approving such an old fashioned exorcism rite drew public and media attention. The case has been labelled as a misidentification of mental illness, negligence, abuse, and religious hysteria.


Exhumation and aftermath


Michel's gravestone. Her grave became a place of pilgrimage.

After the trial, the parents asked the authorities for permission to exhume the remains of their daughter. The official reason presented by the parents to authorities was that Michel had been buried in undue hurry in a cheap coffin. Almost two years after the burial, on 25 February 1978, her remains were replaced in a new oak coffin lined with tin. The official reports state that the body bore the signs of consistent deterioration. The accused exorcists were discouraged from seeing the remains of Michel. Arnold Renz later stated that he had been prevented from entering the mortuary. The church changed its position stating she was mentally ill, not possessed. Her grave became and remains a pilgrimage site.

Ulrich Niemann, a Jesuit priest, doctor and psychiatrist, whom priests call in exorcism cases, told The Washington Post in 2005, "As a doctor, I say there is no such thing as possession... In my view, these patients are mentally ill. I pray with them, but that alone doesn't help. You have to deal with them as a psychiatrist. But at the same time, when the patient comes from Eastern Europe and believes that he's been impaired by evil, it would be a mistake to ignore his belief system." Niemann further said that he does not think he is an exorcist and does not perform the Roman ritual of 1614. Academic Heike Schwarz says her case showed demonic possession as a variation of multiple personality disorder.

The number of officially sanctioned exorcisms decreased in Germany due to this case, in spite of Pope Benedict XVI support for wider use of it compared to Pope John Paul II, who previously made the rules more strict involving only rare cases in 1999.

Three films, The Exorcism of Emily Rose (which focuses on the court case and not the exorcism), Requiem and Anneliese: The Exorcist Tapes, are loosely based on Michel's story.

In 2013, a fire broke out in the house where she lived and although the local police said it was a case of arson, some locals attributed it to this case. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel
Wikipedia is not a credible source. It is written by anyone on the internet. And generally expresses one viewpoint and disregarding others. You believe what you want...it is your prerogative.

 
Old 12-26-2016, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Orange County, California
308 posts, read 260,676 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
There is no such thing as the Devil...And if you believe that there are those who will belong to this Devil, then you sin as you are a polytheist believing that there exists multiple gods and even that there is a god that is equal to G-d and wars against G-d...
The words of Jesus Christ.

John 8:44. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
 
Old 12-26-2016, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Orange County, California
308 posts, read 260,676 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I would just love to see you prove this using the Hebrew Scriptures...Can you?...
Just look the meaning of the word up in any dictionary. Humans are not devils. They are blind, lost souls. Although, I admit that some can share the same characteristics as the devil. Believing that humans are the devil is a common error among Christians.
 
Old 12-26-2016, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Orange County, California
308 posts, read 260,676 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
By who?...
Witnesses.
 
Old 12-26-2016, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Orange County, California
308 posts, read 260,676 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
And you have seen this?...
I have heard testimonies and seen real life footage of it happening. Others have seen it and I believe them.
 
Old 12-26-2016, 07:52 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlyservant View Post
I have heard testimonies and seen real life footage of it happening. Others have seen it and I believe them.
And no one would lie...Right???...Nooo...Of course not...
 
Old 12-26-2016, 07:53 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlyservant View Post
Witnesses.
And of course, you believe what ever anyone tells you, right?...
 
Old 12-26-2016, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Orange County, California
308 posts, read 260,676 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
And of course, you believe what ever anyone tells you, right?...
I've seen enough in my life to know when someone is telling the truth about demons.
 
Old 12-26-2016, 07:59 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlyservant View Post
Wikipedia is not a credible source. It is written by anyone on the internet. And generally expresses one viewpoint and disregarding others. You believe what you want...it is your prerogative.
Oh, yes...The old "that's not a reliable source" chestnut...Why am I not surprised...You do know that there is a bibliography at the bottom, don't you?...And you can research it other ways to verify, right?...But, then that would blow your whole belief out of the water...And what makes you think that those youtubes, that were nothing more than a recording, are any more valid?...BTW, the second video that you provided, I guess you didn't really listen to it first, actually, was verbatim of the Wiki article that I provided...
 
Old 12-26-2016, 08:06 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlyservant View Post
The words of Jesus Christ.

John 8:44. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Sorry, guy...But, guess where Christianity claims to spring from?...Judaism...And there are no examples of Devils in the Hebrew Scriptures, why do you suppose that is?...so that means that they were suddenly made up, recently...Same thing with the Christian idea of Satan...He exists nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures...So, where did he come from?...
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