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Let us put things in perspective, Let's say there are 4 million Jews and 2 million are Sadducees and 2 million Pharisees pretty much as Republicans and Democrats are divided. You have a whole nation divided by the idea of resurrection. Paul believed in the resurrection.
6 A.D. Herod Archelaus is deposed by Caesar Augustus and Israel is no longer able to judge it's own people against the transgression of Torah.
Almost 3 decades pass by with Israel as a province of Rome.
Those Roman Rulers CERTAINLY put people in power as things naturally go, and who would deny this in an atmosphere of Herod being a Palestinian, not a Jew?
Jesus came against those Pharisees in power at the time and this was 3 decades after Jerusalem became Rome. And yet, Jesus said that they sit in the seat of Moses and we should do whatever they say because they were still the priests of God.
Imagine this.
Lets say there are 4 million Jews, and let's divide them in belief, that the Pharisees believed in Resurrection and the Sadducees did not.
I am a Republican and yet I am appalled at the Republicans in power but even though I know those in power are corrupt, I AM A REPUBLICAN.
Those Pharisees who sat in the seat of Moses were people just like any people in any great government, but they did not represent the people, they had no clue how the average person lived just like the politicians today.
It didn't stop 2 million people from being Pharisees because the leaders were corrupt, they were Pharisees who believed in the resurrection and who respected the Torah and worship system of God and Gentiles CONVERTED to the Pharisee religion.
That's it.
So he said that he was the pharisee of all pharisees, but counted being so to be one to be dung and a loss to gain Christ, ad you insist that he remained one ?.
This ^^^^. The self-righteous think they are special snowflakes in the eyes of God because of what they believe about God and "Jesus. The truth is we are ALL special snowflakes in the eyes of God because He LOVES us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Do you see yourself as the keeper of the rules, actively comparing yourself to others?
That is the definition of self-righteous and Vizio fits the bill.
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Originally Posted by pcamps
Paul, counted all that he formerly was and believed (the biases and prejudices that shaped him), to be dung, for the purpose of the excellency of knowing Christ. Phil 3:8. Christ being the full revelation of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
That did not stop Paul from being a Pharisee.
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Originally Posted by pcamps
So he said that he was the pharisee of all Pharisees, but counted being so to be one to be dung and a loss to gain Christ, and you insist that he remained one?
You cannot reason with dogma and unreasoning credulity, especially when it challenges the special snowflake status of the chosen ones, pcamps.
So he said that he was the pharisee of all pharisees, but counted being so to be one to be dung and a loss to gain Christ, ad you insist that he remained one ?.
I insist?
He insisted, HE said he was and Christianity became a legal sect of Judaism for 100 years, what year was it when Christians no longer kept the Sabbaths of God, and of his son?
Jesus didn't come tearing down his own religion, he came teaching secrets of Torah and proving his religion.
He insisted, HE said he was and Christianity became a legal sect of Judaism for 100 years, what year was it when Christians no longer kept the Sabbaths of God, and of his son?
Jesus didn't come tearing down his own religion, he came teaching secrets of Torah and proving his religion.
What decade was it when Gentiles left Judaism?
No, he denied what he formerly was. He saw himself in Christ and labeled himself with nothing other than being a son of God.
He insisted, HE said he was and Christianity became a legal sect of Judaism for 100 years, what year was it when Christians no longer kept the Sabbaths of God, and of his son?
Jesus didn't come tearing down his own religion, he came teaching secrets of Torah and proving his religion.
What decade was it when Gentiles left Judaism?
Jesus didn't come to build upon what already existed, he established a new and living way to approach the Father with boldness rather than the system already in existence that was dependent upon appeasement and fear.
Acts 23 ~ Lies told against Paul and Paul makes sacrifice under the authority of the priests Jesus told us to listen to.
Thou seest, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but thatthou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Jesus didn't come tearing down his own religion, you try and prove that Jesus could not have been the Messiah.
Should I believe Jesus and Paul?
Again.
Acts 23
I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
Acts 23 ~ Lies told against Paul and Paul makes sacrifice under the authority of the priests Jesus told us to listen to.
Thou seest, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but thatthou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Jesus didn't come tearing down his own religion, you try and prove that Jesus could not have been the Messiah.
Should I believe Jesus and Paul?
Again.
Acts 23
I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
What decade was it when Gentiles left Judaism?
I'm not going to ***** foot around and stroke your ego about what you are saying here Han...Do you really believe that Jesus' teaching were comparable to the interpretations of the pharisees in respect to the scriptures. You are aware he was pretty brutal about all that they stood for?. I do not want to be pharisee like i want to be Christ like, is that too difficult for you to see through the dogmatic beliefs you are shrined in.
I'm not going to ***** foot around and stroke your ego about what you are saying here Han...Do you really believe that Jesus' teaching were comparable to the interpretations of the pharisees in respect to the scriptures. You are aware he was pretty brutal about all that they stood for?. I do not want to be pharisee like i want to be Christ like, is that too difficult for you to see through the dogmatic beliefs you are shrined in.
The word Pharisee is not a derogatory word, again, Paul was a Pharisee and everyone who believed in the resurrection was a Pharisee. I give you Paul's own words, I give you Jesus's own words when he said that they sit in the seat of Moses and they were the authorities. Time and time again, Paul submitted to their authority because he never stopped being a Pharisee, Gentiles converted to Judaism Pc.
Jesus and Paul did not go around creating their own laws or their own worship system, and when Jesus says that whoever keeps the laws of Moses and teaches others to keep it, you don't want to believe that do you?
Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism and those believing Jews and gentiles attended synagogue together until the great synagogue was burned 100 years after Christ and the fire blamed on those gentile converts, and that is when Gentiles Christianity split from Judaism. Hadrian made a deal with the Greek Orthodox so that if they accepted the Saturnalia, Hadrian would give the Jewish synagogues to those Greek Orthodox and Jews were exiled from Jerusalem.
For 100 years Pharisees and Christians went to the same Synagogues in the same religion and Jews who believed in Jesus did not stop believing in the resurrection and that is the whole point of being a Pharissee.
For 2000 years Christians have been persecuting and killing anyone who would follow the original Christianity which was founded in Judaism where Jews and Gentiles became one man, and you cannot take a gentile and a Jew and make them one man if the two are in two separate religions and Christianity became a separate religion when they converted away from Judaism, away from the believing Pharisees.
Who in their right mind could make a claim that Jesus came and brought a new covenant for Ephraim and Judah to become one man when Ephraim has departed from Judah?
Are you Ephraim or Judah?
Ephraim becomes one with Judah, he doesn't separate, the covenant is for gentiles who return with respect to Torah and they repent of having ever involved themselves with Pagan ways.
When somebody is in a separate religion than the worship system and laws of God, why would they think they had a covenant at all? It is the same as a Muslim claiming that his way is the true way, Not God's way. Just as Christianity does, they think they have created a new religion while making a bold claim to still be in Judaism.,
Jesus didn't come to build upon what already existed, he established a new and living way to approach the Father with boldness rather than the system already in existence that was dependent upon appeasement and fear.
I think when a person chooses to willingly contradict the words of Jesus that they can go no further until they accept truth. Truth is Truth, one cannot change history no matter how bad they may want to, and the simple Truth is a division. Christianity pretends that the division of Jew and Gentile simply did not occur. They pretend that what Christianity is today, that it was the same in Jesus day, in Paul's day.
Frankly, If Jesus said that every person with the birth name of Joel should cut their right arm off, I would gladly do it rather than contradict what Jesus said.
It is very simple to me, there isn't a single person in the world who could quote Jesus to then point their finger at me and say,'' Your belief contradicts what Jesus said.''
I believe every single word that Jesus said, it is not my opinion, it is not my dogma, I simply believe that what Jesus said is sheer Truth.
How does one progress to learn anything if their belief contradicts the words of Jesus himself?
I don't think you can progress, I believe a door is slammed shut in your face if you willingly choose not to believe what Jesus said because your belief contradicts what he said and you choose your belief over his actual words.
Nobody can quote Jesus and show where my belief contradicts his words and yet I could sit here and use Jesus as a witness to so many who don't believe what Jesus said.
Where does one go from there?
When you have contradicted the very words of Jesus because it didn't fit into your preconceived ideas, where do you go? How does one progress if they will disagree with Jesus?
Who do you follow if your belief contradicts the words of Jesus?
Who has turned you away from believing the words of Messiah?
Paul?
Misunderstandings of Paul verses Jesus and Christianity chooses Paul.
If Paul said something that makes you reject the words of Jesus, you choose Paul?
''Whoever will not keep the laws of Moses and who teach others not to keep the laws of Moses will be the least in the kingdom of heaven.''
Even then there is salvation, but he shall be the least in the kingdom and this is the outer court of gentiles which is called the outer court of darkness compared to the light within the Holy place. Was Jesus telling lies?
Not my words, Jesus.
How many Christians reject what Jesus says of the law? Is he so wrong?
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