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Religion is all man-made. You can see it in the various translations here. People create their own reality from pure speculation and fantasy. As such, make what you wish of it. Gods are all mane-made fantasies, the same as fairies and hobgoblins.
Religion gives people hope and power. They believe if they pray hard enough they will sway the imperfect god into doing right...their right. The human believes they know better than the god.
I don't disagree with you that religion is often abused and also that because of the dark nature within humankind and the fear of death, it can certainly become a power play. That is not any reason for me to doubt that God is real and that I should have hope because of his love for all of us. There is no hope in atheism. I can't imagine being at peace while believing that everything sacred and divine about life has no true purpose. I mean, sure, there are some joys here in this world, but a lot of sorrows as well. If I were an atheist, I would probably keep it to myself just out of not wanting to cause people to lose hope. I'm not an atheist, and I don't think it is possible for me to lose my faith because I honestly would not be alive today had it not been for Christ's love and the comfort of the Holy Spirit with me.
One question: Is there some reason why the TRINITY doctrine has three or four threads going here all at the same time? I just wondered if this was a coincidence or perhaps it is because the earth is going through a very intense spiritual transition at this time and those who consider themselves the "owners" of the masses are doubling down on "must believe" dogmas during this time when many hearts are pressed and or filled with doubt and fear.
A couple of those threads are old threads which were dormant for years but were revived by a new poster arguing against the Trinity. This of course sparked a response from those who defend the Trinitarian view.
A couple of those threads are old threads which were dormant for years but were revived by a new poster arguing against the Trinity. This of course sparked a response from those who defend the Trinitarian view.
Thanks, Mike. I was wondering if there was a run on the Trinity for some special reason Have a blessed day, brother.
I think it's food for thought. The thing is Katz is that I think the word 'image' in the context of Gen. 1:26 has to do with just as God is Sovereign over creation, He created us to rule and have dominion over the earth and that therefore the word 'image' is not referring to a physical image but to a purpose and status. But having said that, see what I write at the bottom of this post.
Use the word image in sentences which have nothing to do with the subject of being created in God's image. I'll give it a try.
Scientists have captured the first images of the electron orbital of a hydrogen atom.
She is the image of health.
I have an image in my mind of a beautiful woman in a bikini walking along a white sandy beach.
That boy is the spitting image of his father.
'Likeness' and 'image' are synonymous terms, so yes they pretty much mean the same thing. I think the use of the words 'image' and 'likeness' in Gen. 1:26 is probably just a parallelism in which two different words are being used to say the same thing.
Am I correct in thinking that your view is that being made in the image and likeness of God has to do with your belief that God the Father has a physical body and that our being created in the image and likeness of God has to do with our physical bodies?
My thought on that is that if God the Father did have a physical body, that body would be that of a human body and that is why God created our bodies to look as they do. And that knowing from all eternity past that the Second 'Person' or 'Personage' of the Godhead would incarnate into the human race and be resurrected to spend all eternity future in a body, He designed our bodies to look as they do. He designed our bodies as they are in view of the fact that as a man, Jesus would spend the eternal future in a body and therefore designed the human body accordingly.
Thanks for your comments, Mike. I've got a lot going on today and will not be able to respond until much later in the day. I will respond, though.
God has chosen to reveal Himself to us as being
a Triune Godhead of 3 Persons or 3 Manifestations.
He has revealed Himself as being One God in 3 Persons.
What is not so clear is exactly WHY He chose to do this.
All Scriptures are from the NKJV.
Let us begin with Father God and the Word (Jesus Christ)
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with (Father) God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1)
[In the last clause of John 1:1] John has no article before theos, God. The logos, therefore, is not identified as God or with God; the word theos has become adjectival and describes the sphere to which the logos belongs. We would, therefore, have to say that this means that the logos belongs to the same sphere as God; without being identified with God, the logos has the same kind of life and being as God. Here the NEB [New English Bible] finds the perfect translation: “What God was, the Word was.”
There are elements of John 1:1 and other phrases in the introduction of John that not only refer back in time to God’s work in the original creation, but also foreshadow the work of Christ in the new administration and the new creation. Noted Bible commentator F.F. Bruce argues for this interpretation:
"It is not by accident that the Gospel begins with the same phrase as the book of Genesis. In Genesis 1:1, ‘In the beginning’ introduces the story of the old creation; here it introduces the story of the new creation. In both works of creation the agent is the Word of God." Does John 1:1 prove that Jesus is God? An explanation of John 1:1 | BiblicalUnitarian.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1:14)
God's Word manifested (was made known) in the man Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
“Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God.
Amen.” (Romans 9:5)
Romans 9:5 “to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed forever. Amen.” (RSV)The last sentence here is a doxology to God the Father. It does not call Christ God!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
Note: “Christ” is the Greek word for the Hebrew word “Messiah”
Messiah means "anointed." One is anointed by another of higher rank!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
Now let us introduce the Holy Spirit
The archangel Gabriel instructed the virgin Mary … “… you shall call His name JESUS. He will be great, and
will be called the Son of the Highest … the Holy Spirit (God)
will come upon you … therefore, also, that Holy One who
is to be born will be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:31-35)
“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows:
When His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph,
before they came together (she was a virgin) she was
found to be with child of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 1:18)
So, we see that Joseph was not Jesus’ father,
but the Holy Spirit (God) was His father.
The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. The Spirit of the Father. It is not a person separate from him!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
This explains why the Bible can say that God had a “Son”.
The Word from heaven became God’s “Son” on earth.
God the Father did have a son, and that's why he's called the Father! It was His Spirit that made Mary to be with child. It was not a separate person from the Father!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
More details about the Second Person of the Triune Godhead
“For a Child is born to us, a Son is given to us …
And He will be called: … Mighty God …” (Isaiah 9:6) “… and they shall call His name Immanuel, which is translated, ‘God with us’.” (Matthew 1:23)
– so said an angel of the Lord
This word “Immanuel” represents the joining of two Hebrew words: immanu and el. Since el is the shortened Hebrew word for “God” (Heb. elohim), some traditionalists assert that ascribing the title “Immanuel” to Jesus effectively identifies Him as God. On the contrary, joining these two words together means exactly what Matthew says: “God with us.” That is, calling Jesus “Immanuel” means God is present with his people through Jesus as his agent. It indicates what someone exclaimed when Jesus raised the widow’s dead son to life, “God has visited His people” (Luke 7.16). Jewish scholar Geza Vermes rightly explains, “Jews would have known that the name Emmanuel (‘God is with us’) signified not the incarnation of God in human form, but a promise of divine help to the Jewish people. ”http://servetustheevangelical.co/doc..._He_is_God.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
“The Father and I are one.” (John 10:30) – so said Jesus
I and my wife are one as well. This does not make us God or a single being. It means we have a single or unified purpose!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
Jesus was (and is) the Creator and the Sustainer of all things: “God who created all things through Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 3:9)
“Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things” (1 Corinthians 8:6)
“sustains all by the mighty power of His command” (Hebrews 1:3)
“it is His power that holds everything together” (Colossians 1:17)
The word "through" is not the same as "by." Jesus is not responsible for any of the physical creation!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
And Jesus is the Giver of eternal life: “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And I give them eternal life” (John 10:27)
Jesus is the bringer of eternal life because He brought the Gospel by which we are saved, but God the Father is the source of eternal life. He is the source of all life!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
Truly, Jesus is everything, including … the bread of life – the light of the world – I AM (the God of Exodus 3:14) – the door (to salvation) – the good shepherd
Jesus is not the I Am of Exodus 3:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
– the resurrection and the life – the way, the truth, and the life (John 6:35,
John 8:12, John 8:24/58, John 10:9, John 10:11, John 11:25, John 14:6).
He is these things because he brought the Gospel, not because he is God!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
More details about the Third Person of the Triune Godhead
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray to the Father,
and He will give you another Helper (Comforter, Advocate, etc.),
that He may abide with you forever — the Spirit of truth, whom the
world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him;
but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.” (John 14:15-18) – “another” is the Greek word “allos” (meaning “another of the same kind”)
Strongs 243állos (a primitive word) – another of the same kind; another of a similar type.
You left something out of the definition of Allos, but then you knew that. Christ is of a similar type because He carries the same Word that the Spirit carries, not because He is God!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.” (John 14:23) – Father God and Jesus promise to indwell the true believer as the Holy Spirit.
Many NT verses teach that believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things …” (John 14:26)
The indwelling Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the Spirit of the Father, and it was in Christ. It is God's Word because it carries God's Word. Jesus is also God's Word because He carries God's Word through His indwelling Spirit. The words Jesus spoke are also God's Word, and they indwell the hearts of all believers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
One of the more famous passages is … “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit
… You have not lied to men but to God.” (Acts 4:3-4)
God is the Father. He is Spirit and He is Holy. Holy Spirit is another term for God the Father! It can also refer to the gift of Holy spirit, but that is not the meaning here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
There are about 30 NT verses in which all 3 Persons of the Trinity are mentioned… as if They are indeed equal.
No there isn't! Even well known Trinitarian apologists will admit this! There is not a single verse in scripture that can be shown to be an unequivocal statement of the existence of a Trinity! The closest there is to such is the Johannine Coma which is a known spurious insertion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZacharyB
There is a lot more, but this should suffice to prove …
the Holy Bible reveals to us that God wishes to reveal Himself
God revealed Himself over and over again as a single person Who's name is Yahweh!
In Martial Arts, the essence of honoring and respecting are the same.
Bowing does not mean that one is above, or superior to the other.
This may be true in the modern sense and in a different culture, but in the ancient near east it was a sign of deference to one of higher authority. The whole reason one prostrated themselves on the ground was so that their head would not be on a higher level than the authority figure. I mean, what if the King was really short?
Modern bowing is a hollow imitation of the ancient near Eastern tradition of prostrating oneself, and it is this prostration that is referred to as worship in the Bible!
Wrong. Writing was such a rare and important task they did not waste words, unlike today. They mean two different aspects of God. Carnal minds believe image refers to how we look, but God is Spirit so He has no look, just consciousness(Spirit). Being made in His image, then, means being made in His consciousness(Spirit). Being in His likeness means being "Like Him" and having consciousness(Spirit").
I beg to differ, repetition of important concepts by stating them in more than one way is done all throughout scripture, and using an additional word to reinforce the meaning of another is hardly a waste of words! Paul used this technique frequently!
Image was never meant by the author to refer to a physical image. That's absurd! How does a spirit that has no physical substance have a physical image? Image in this sense refers to the mirroring of the character or qualities of another, so if you think that I believe that image or likeness refers to a physical image, you are seriously mistaken. I never said that! All that I said was that both words were being used in the same way and that it was for the purpose of emphasis. It is used the same way of Christ in the NT as it is used here in Genesis. Jesus provides a tangible "imprint" (on the mind and heart) of who God is and what He is like. We can say that we "see" God when we "look" upon Christ, but this same image of God is "seen" through Christ as he is known in scripture and revealed in our hearts. We do not need to have physically "seen" Christ to "see" this.
"Moses writes that man is created in God's "image" and "likeness." Any reliable lexicon mentions that "image" and "likeness" reinforce each other in a manner common to Hebrew. It means we are like God in form (not physical form) and implies that, like Him, we have a spiritual capacity which animals do not have." Image and Likeness of God (Forerunner Commentary) - Bible Tools
The bolded above is exactly the point I was making! "In a manner common to Hebrew" means that this technique of using two different words to reinforce or emphasize a single concept is common to the Hebrew writers. The same is true in the NT. One word is used to clarify the meaning of the other! Likeness clarifies image so that it can be seen that a physical image is not what was intended.
Thanks, Mike. I was wondering if there was a run on the Trinity for some special reason Have a blessed day, brother.
You're on a thread where the Trinity is the specified topic! Why would it surprise you that the Trinity is being discussed? You seem to be awfully opposed to the idea of discussing the Trinity. If you have no opinion regarding the Trinity, and are so opposed to discussing it, then why are you on a thread where the point is to discuss the Trinity? This is not a shot, it's just an honest logical question. What point is there to being on a thread that discusses the Trinity, if you don't want to discuss it?
Wrong. Writing was such a rare and important task they did not waste words, unlike today. They mean two different aspects of God. Carnal minds believe image refers to how we look, but God is Spirit so He has no look, just consciousness(Spirit). Being made in His image, then, means being made in His consciousness(Spirit). Being in His likeness means being "Like Him" and having consciousness(Spirit").
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivram
I beg to differ, repetition of important concepts by stating them in more than one way is done all throughout scripture, and using an additional word to reinforce the meaning of another is hardly a waste of words! Paul used this technique frequently!
Image was never meant by the author to refer to a physical image. That's absurd! How does a spirit that has no physical substance have a physical image? Image in this sense refers to the mirroring of the character or qualities of another, so if you think that I believe that image or likeness refers to a physical image, you are seriously mistaken. I never said that! All that I said was that both words were being used in the same way and that it was for the purpose of emphasis. It is used the same way of Christ in the NT as it is used here in Genesis. Jesus provides a tangible "imprint" (on the mind and heart) of who God is and what He is like. We can say that we "see" God when we "look" upon Christ, but this same image of God is "seen" through Christ as he is known in scripture and revealed in our hearts. We do not need to have physically "seen" Christ to "see" this.
"Moses writes that man is created in God's "image" and "likeness." Any reliable lexicon mentions that "image" and "likeness" reinforce each other in a manner common to Hebrew.It means we are like God in form (not physical form) and implies that, like Him, we have a spiritual capacity which animals do not have." Image and Likeness of God (Forerunner Commentary) - Bible Tools
The bolded above is exactly the point I was making! "In a manner common to Hebrew" means that this technique of using two different words to reinforce or emphasize a single concept is common to the Hebrew writers. The same is true in the NT. One word is used to clarify the meaning of the other! Likeness clarifies image so that it can be seen that a physical image is not what was intended.
I can only assume that my poor communication is responsible for the appearance of disagreement because I see that you are essentially agreeing with me. Of course, my view contains the specific concept of consciousness upon which everything depends.
One question: Is there some reason why the TRINITY doctrine has three or four threads going here all at the same time? I just wondered if this was a coincidence or perhaps it is because the earth is going through a very intense spiritual transition at this time and those who consider themselves the "owners" of the masses are doubling down on "must believe" dogmas during this time when many hearts are pressed and or filled with doubt and fear.
The Trinity shifts all emphasis away from the Father, and places it upon Jesus and a non-existent third person (The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, and not a separate person). This completely opposes the purpose that Christ gave for His Ministry which was to point back to the Father. If you look back upon the Gospel account, you'll see that he makes this point over and over. Jesus is God's emissary, His representative. A representative is not more important than the one that they represent. If we love God and Love Christ, how can we ignore the very purpose Christ said He was here for, which was to be about the Father's business. Trinitarians put the Father on the back burner and make Christ the Focus, when Christ said that the Father should be our focus! This is not a matter of doubtful disputations, it is the very crux of the Gospel message and it couldn't be more important!
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Have a blessed day, brother.